|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
tgrear2008
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
|
 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
The Second Amendment�s guarantee of an individual right to bear arms applies to state and local gun control laws, the Supreme Court ruled Monday in a 5-to-4 decision.
This should make things interesting in Chicago. Hopefully it will make it easier for law abiding citizens to protect themselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tgrear2008 wrote: |
This should make things interesting in Chicago. Hopefully it will make it easier for law abiding citizens to protect themselves. |
Right, because it was so difficult for a law abiding citizen to obtain a weapon before this ruling? Somehow I doubt it was that hard prior to this decision. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Dude, really? Come on. Murder rates shot up THEN those cities implemented gun control laws. |
I think the point is that, as was demonstrated this past weekend in Chicago, preventing law-abiding citizens from being armed doesnt help.
Also, the entire point of the ruling (and the reason for the case being heard in the first place) is that the process was prohibitively difficult in Chicago.
More importantly, police officers are just ordinary citizens with a clean criminal record and a short training period (3 of my close relatives have taken on the job). There's no reason a similarly qualified citizen shouldnt be able to arm themselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| comm wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Dude, really? Come on. Murder rates shot up THEN those cities implemented gun control laws. |
I think the point is that, as was demonstrated this past weekend in Chicago, preventing law-abiding citizens from being armed doesnt help.
Also, the entire point of the ruling (and the reason for the case being heard in the first place) is that the process was prohibitively difficult in Chicago.
More importantly, police officers are just ordinary citizens with a clean criminal record and a short training period (3 of my close relatives have taken on the job). There's no reason a similarly qualified citizen shouldnt be able to arm themselves. |
Law-abiding citizens were not prevented from being armed. And how did that weekend demonstrate things would have turned out differently if they were armed? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Law-abiding citizens were not prevented from being armed. And how did that weekend demonstrate things would have turned out differently if they were armed? |
The weekend was an anecdotal demonstration of the fact (yes, fact) that the murder rate in Chicago has gone up since their effective ban on handguns was implemented.
As for the workings of the "handgun ban", I can only say that it was accepted as such by both supporters and detractors of it. I'll probably look up the details though, since I'm curious! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
It looks like the murder rate has fluctuated since the ban. Went down in the 80s, then up in the early 90s, then down again before going back up in recent years. Unfortunately I cannot find a link that shows the rate during the entire time, I am strictly going by news briefs I came across in my search.
And there are so many factors at work (as I mentioned in a previous post) that it would be very hard to determine how useful or counterproductive such a ban would be.
Given the fact that you can buy a gun quite easily both elsewhere in IL as well as who knows how many other places in the USA, a ban on guns in a city is silly anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tgrear2008
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Handguns are illegal in Chicago. Now, it is possible to get other firearms, but lets examine the effects in closer detail.
With no handguns that leaves rifles and shotguns. Rifles are not very smart in densely populated areas, so shotguns are the way to go. Most elderly folks aren't strong enough to wield a shotgun, (unless they're Granny from the Beverly Hillbillies), and neither are most women or disabled folks.
When we add in Chicago's convoluted registration policies and annual fees, we see an unfair restriction on those of modest means.
So, the weakest segments of society, the ones who need to protect themselves the most, are unable to.
I won't even get into the irrational self defense laws where you have to flee your own home or face criminal charges.
Now, I don't know if any of the 52 murders could have been prevented.
I do know, that when seconds count, the police are minutes away. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Noliving
Joined: 01 Apr 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
Dude, really? Come on. Murder rates shot up THEN those cities implemented gun control laws. And FYI, NYC has a very low murder rate. Last year it also set a record LOW for # of homicides in a year. DC's murder rate has also dropped siginificantly in the past decade. I will concede that those tight laws were not the only factor, or even the biggest factor. In the case of DC, I'd say gentrification would be (along with improved public gov't since the Barry days).
And for every Switzerland there is a South Korea and Singapore (i.e. very tight gun laws, hardly any murders). |
Exactly so what that means is is that it is the culture, not the availability of a weapon that is the determining factor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gun control in NYC helped to reduce crime:
| Quote: |
New York's tough gun-control laws were central to its success in reducing crime. Because it is illegal to own a handgun without a difficult-to-get permit in New York, whenever police see a suspicious bulge or other indication of a firearm, they can stop and frisk. Weapons searches are by far the most common stop-and-frisk activity in New York; there were more than 56,000 over 15 months studied by New York's attorney general.
The evidence that aggressive enforcement of gun-control laws reduces violent crime is not limited to New York. A recent National Research Council report found that throughout the nation, aggressive stop-and-frisk tactics targeting illegal guns drive down crime. A recent study of Chicago's handgun ban found that it succeeded in constricting gun markets. |
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20100523_Attack_on_Chicago_s_handgun_ban_could_undo_a_winning_police_tactic_.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kepler wrote: |
Gun control in NYC helped to reduce crime:
| Quote: |
New York's tough gun-control laws were central to its success in reducing crime. Because it is illegal to own a handgun without a difficult-to-get permit in New York, whenever police see a suspicious bulge or other indication of a firearm, they can stop and frisk. Weapons searches are by far the most common stop-and-frisk activity in New York; there were more than 56,000 over 15 months studied by New York's attorney general.
The evidence that aggressive enforcement of gun-control laws reduces violent crime is not limited to New York. A recent National Research Council report found that throughout the nation, aggressive stop-and-frisk tactics targeting illegal guns drive down crime. A recent study of Chicago's handgun ban found that it succeeded in constricting gun markets. |
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20100523_Attack_on_Chicago_s_handgun_ban_could_undo_a_winning_police_tactic_.html |
Ridiculous. The cops don't need more excuses to accost and search innocent people.
ALL crime was dropping in New York before the gun ban. It's more likely that the law led to MORE gun deaths than their would have been. Now only the crooks carry guns (because they don't care about the law to begin with) while the law abiding folks have to leave their gun at home, leaving them defenseless when a crook pulls a gun on them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
According to 2004 murder stats, there were 5,600 black offenders, whilst 5,300 white
Blacks however are 12.4% of the population of the United States (37 million) and whites 75% (225 million)
This means that the number of black offenders was 15 per 100,000 blacks, and the number of white offenders 2 per 100,000 whites.
According to Wiki's Homicide Rates, the number of black offenders in 2004 was over twice the homicide rate for North America and the number of white offenders less than half. White America's offender rate of 2 per 100,000 in 2004 was similar to the number of incidents of homicide in Canada and Belgium. Black America's rate of 15 per 100,000 was higher than that in Swaziland, Mexico and Zimbabwe. I realize there's a difference between an offender rate and a homicide rate (one offender may commit several incidents of homicide), but it gives some indication.
Last edited by Sergio Stefanuto on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
| Quote: |
The data provide a breakdown of the ethnicity of the 18,091 men and boys who police took action against for a range of violent and sexual offences in London in 2009-10.
They show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54 per cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes, 67 per cent. Street crimes include muggings, assault with intent to rob and snatching property.
Just over 12 per cent of London�s 7.5 million population is black, including those of mixed black and white parentage, while 69 per cent is white, according to the Office for National Statistics.
The police figures also show that black men are twice as likely to be victims. They made up 29 per cent of the male victims of gun crime and 24 per cent of the male victims of knife crime.
|
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/26/opinion/26macdonald.html
| Quote: |
Based on reports filed by victims, blacks committed 66 percent of all violent crime in New York in 2009, including 80 percent of shootings and 71 percent of robberies. Blacks and Hispanics together accounted for 98 percent of reported gun assaults. And the vast majority of the victims of violent crime were also members of minority groups.
Non-Hispanic whites, on the other hand, committed 5 percent of the city�s violent crimes in 2009, 1.4 percent of all shootings and less than 5 percent of all robberies. |
I do not see how guns are the problem. I agree with Sergio. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
