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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
Umm...in case, like Miss Treated, you hadn't noticed, killing and eating animals is done in EVERY country. |
Absolutely, but I do think there is an undercurrent of cruelty and general lack of respect for animals in Korea, which is more so than many other first world countries. The attitude is different. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:23 am Post subject: |
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I had a student a long time ago at a hagwon, a wierd little middle schooler who used to dye her hair green during vaca. Her English level was good and she told interesting little stories.
After Chuseok/solnal one year she told me she had been at her gran's house in the 'deep country'. She said her gran kept cats and dogs around the house as a mobile food larder. She witnessed her Gran(not sure if she supervised or did it herself), hanging a dog off a tree and flailing it before cutting its throat. She also saw her gran wring a cats neck so as to make cat soup.
I was kind of repulsed to be honest but I can't really see anything wrong with it except for torturing the dog pre death. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
I was kind of repulsed to be honest but I can't really see anything wrong with it except for torturing the dog pre death. |
Sure i have nothing in principle against the idea of killing animals for food and survival. But while western countries agonise over how humane it is to extinguish a cow in a millisecond with an electronic prodder, korea sees nothing wrong with torturing live cats and dogs to death for half an hour..in the most barbaric fashion imaginable.. before finally dismembering them.
Its beyond me how a human being can inflict so much suffering, needlessly, on a defenseless animal. But its a mercy of sorts when you consider how they've been kept up til that moment. "Improving the flavor" does not qualify as a legitimate reason for battering a strung-up dog with iron bars.. sorry. Neither is it justification for boiling cats alive in pressure cookers.
If however you dismiss it simply as "culture", you still have dozens of other daily examples in this country, be it old ajosshi's selling sackloads of day-old chicks (that never get fed or watered) or yelling and kicking at terrified puppies: fishermen mutilating their catch before liesurely allowing them to die by suffocation, and so on and on. For me, there can be no blacker a mark on a persons character than unwarranted cruelty.
I remember in the UK, the demolition of a building got delayed for 3 months to allow a nest of blackbirds in it time to fledge. A step into the ridiculous perhaps? but thats what you call respect for other living things, something noble and dignified. Something (sadly) lacking in Korea. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:51 am Post subject: |
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I saw the video, but I don't see the actual throwing of the cat. That video doesn't prove she's guilty.
Anyways, I have no problems killing animals, although I'm not into torture. Wonder what people's views are on killing insects out of the blue? |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:07 am Post subject: |
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yeah i hear she is fined 200k won and i think the cat owner and animal rights group are suing her.
I know we eat animals and all that but I wouldn't want to be around a person that scapegoats innocent animals and inflicts pain upon them unnecessarily. To me, it is a reflection of the behavior they would have around a human being.
In short, that bitch crazy. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
I was kind of repulsed to be honest but I can't really see anything wrong with it except for torturing the dog pre death. |
Sure i have nothing in principle against the idea of killing animals for food and survival. But while western countries agonise over how humane it is to extinguish a cow in a millisecond with an electronic prodder, korea sees nothing wrong with torturing live cats and dogs to death for half an hour..in the most barbaric fashion imaginable.. before finally dismembering them.
Its beyond me how a human being can inflict so much suffering, needlessly, on a defenseless animal. But its a mercy of sorts when you consider how they've been kept up til that moment. "Improving the flavor" does not qualify as a legitimate reason for battering a strung-up dog with iron bars.. sorry. Neither is it justification for boiling cats alive in pressure cookers.
If however you dismiss it simply as "culture", you still have dozens of other daily examples in this country, be it old ajosshi's selling sackloads of day-old chicks (that never get fed or watered) or yelling and kicking at terrified puppies: fishermen mutilating their catch before liesurely allowing them to die by suffocation, and so on and on. For me, there can be no blacker a mark on a persons character than unwarranted cruelty.
I remember in the UK, the demolition of a building got delayed for 3 months to allow a nest of blackbirds in it time to fledge. A step into the ridiculous perhaps? but thats what you call respect for other living things, something noble and dignified. Something (sadly) lacking in Korea. |
On the one hand yes and on the other no.
I mean after all it was the west that brought us the straight up industrialized slaughter of meat animals and atrocious living conditions that go with it.
Heck I knew a guy form back home who disposed of the excess cats on his farm by burying them to their necks and running them over with a lawnmower. 
On the other hand some of the stuff you see here is just whack. I've seen kids here just do some really off the wall crap that made my stomach turn.
At the same time you have vegetarian Buddhists here who won't harm a fly.
My Co-teachers here gape in wonder how I'll scoop insects up and release them out the window and am unbothered by spiders (hey, they catch flies and mosquitoes).
Then again the last time a wasp was buzzing around the classroom and all the kids were acting panicky I just walked over and whacked it.
I could never stand to kill a live octopus given their level of development and boiling seafood live is unthinkable- the sound! At the same time I see nothing wrong in principle about eating dog meat.
The contradictions of life. And death. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I mean after all it was the west that brought us the straight up industrialized slaughter of meat animals and atrocious living conditions that go with it. |
True, although I think there have been advancements in laws governing such living conditions. Which shows there is a general consensus that cruelty is ...(obviously)...wrong.
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| Heck I knew a guy form back home who disposed of the excess cats on his farm by burying them to their necks and running them over with a lawnmower. |
I hope you reported him to the authorities. Seriously.. that is sick and I personally I would not want to know such a person on any level.
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| At the same time you have vegetarian Buddhists here who won't harm a fly. |
I think most religions would confirm vegetarianism as the ideal way to be. I suppose i'm gradually coming round to their line of thought.
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| At the same time I see nothing wrong in principle about eating dog meat. |
At the same time..neither do I. Its just the cruelty inolved in raising and killing these animals that I find inexcusable. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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It comes down to "all sentient living beings" - not just "men" are endowed with certain inalienable rights - such as not being unnecessarily killed or tortured.
http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Lecture90.html
(If this post gets unnecessarily deleted, there's not much hope for this forum...) |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Heck I knew a guy form back home who disposed of the excess cats on his farm by burying them to their necks and running them over with a lawnmower. |
Did you call the police?
| Steelrails wrote: |
| My Co-teachers here gape in wonder how I'll scoop insects up and release them out the window and am unbothered by spiders (hey, they catch flies and mosquitoes). |
Yeah, I like spiders too. They're very useful house guests. To be honest, it always shocked me a bit that humans haven't utilized spiders as a means of pest control the way they do for cats and dogs. Obviously, domesticating a spider on the same level is unlikely, but they don't really need much domestication. They just sit there catching things for you. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
Yeah, I like spiders too. They're very useful house guests. To be honest, it always shocked me a bit that humans haven't utilized spiders as a means of pest control the way they do for cats and dogs.. |
We're in the era of chemical pesticides...that sterilise and poison the environment.
Humans have generally failed to realise and understand that nature has its own means of pest control.
For example: Owls, hawks, foxes and coyotes kill rodents and rabbits.
Swallows, spiders, birds and bats kill millions of insects. Insects themselves polinate the crops. Yet all the above have been persecuted and reduced to much less than what they were. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Fox"]
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Heck I knew a guy form back home who disposed of the excess cats on his farm by burying them to their necks and running them over with a lawnmower. |
Did you call the police?
No evidence and I don't fink. One way or another this guy was going to kill the stray cats he had on his farm. He did not see them as kittens, he saw them as rats. I thought it was pretty sick but if you told him no he would have just pitchforked them or beaten them with a shovel. He saw it as the quickest way to do it- Step 1- Gather Stray cats. Step 2- Terminate Instantly.
I remember at work in broad daylight he was prowling the grassy area by our store with a metal pole looking for a woodchuck that lived by the area with full intent to kill. Growing up on a farm, he did not like woodchucks. Anyone who has grown up on a farm knows how dangerous woodchucks are.
This won't win me popularity points but in spite of that I was his friend as well. It's his farm, anything that comes on that farm he can do with as he pleases. What he did was no crueler than anyone who raises rabbits, beef or chicken. What because cats are cute that makes it wrong? Please. Now if I wanted to get rid of a cat infestation I'd first call the pound, and if that didn't work I'd use an air rifle or a .22 or something but then you have to worry about discharges. What's another way? Catching them and breaking their necks? Spend $500 on pet control? Poisoning their water? Letting them roam wild and loosing 5-10 chicks a day (your livelihood) to cat attacks? His way seemed a bit warped but the way he explained it made twisted sense.
The guy was loyal. No way would I fink him to the police. Especially the cops of Lenawee Co. Frankly I think your nuts if you choose the police over your friends. The police aren't your friend, they aren't going to be there for you during a poopstorm. Not that cops are bad, but they aren't your neighbor or friend. Of course there are limits.
He thought I was a nut too for not harming a fly, but that didn't stop us from being friends. To anyones pets he'd be as gentle as a lamb, but he drew a clear distinct line between pet and animal. That's another reason I didn't fink him or get too upset, he wasn't morally wishy-washy about it. He didn't have a guilty conscience over it. The cats were pests like rats or cockroaches and he acted accordingly.
| Quote: |
| True, although I think there have been advancements in laws governing such living conditions. Which shows there is a general consensus that cruelty is ...(obviously)...wrong. |
Death is cruel. I don't care if you do the most humane slaughter possible, it is still cruel.
Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is just playing mind games with themself. Either refuse to eat meat period or hold your peace.
By the humane death standard Totalitarian Firing Squads win out over Dresden or White Phosphorus or slow starvation.
This whole "Well our meat industry is humane" garbage is pure self-serving hypocritical nonsense. A dance of the guilty conscience. You're killing, you're cruel. And whether its whales or pigs or cats or cows its all the same.
Like I said I can't stand killing a fly, and am a former vegetarian, but I am not going to lie to myself and convince myself I'm some sort of animal rights saint and I sure ain't going to preach to someone how what they're doing is wrong if I use/consume any kind of industrialized animal product.
That and all of this talk is a luxury of the non-hungry. I am blessed enough to be able to make those kind of choices. All it takes is a nuclear winter famine and this whole vegetarianism and no leather jazz goes out the window. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| One way or another this guy was going to kill the stray cats he had on his farm. He did not see them as kittens, he saw them as rats. |
Those feral cats exist...because humans put them there. We bred them and domesticated them, we brought them to the US, we released them into the wild when we didn't want to look after them anymore.
Having said that, feral cats and dogs are not natural, they do not belong in any ecosystem on the planet and they do great damage wherever they go. But ultimately it is a human-caused problem. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| But while western countries agonise over how humane it is to extinguish a cow in a millisecond with an electronic prodder, korea sees nothing wrong with torturing live cats and dogs to death for half an hour..in the most barbaric fashion imaginable.. before finally dismembering them. |
So stupid and offensive at so many levels. Korea should consider an IQ test before they let any idiot become a "teacher." |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| This won't win me popularity points but in spite of that I was his friend as well. It's his farm, anything that comes on that farm he can do with as he pleases. |
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| He thought I was a nut too for not harming a fly, but that didn't stop us from being friends. To anyones pets he'd be as gentle as a lamb, but he drew a clear distinct line between pet and animal. |
What would happen when someone's pet mistakenly makes its way onto his farm? |
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fusionbarnone
Joined: 31 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Heck I knew a guy form back home who disposed of the excess cats on his farm by burying them to their necks and running them over with a lawnmower. |
Did you call the police?
| Steelrails wrote: |
| My Co-teachers here gape in wonder how I'll scoop insects up and release them out the window and am unbothered by spiders (hey, they catch flies and mosquitoes). |
Yeah, I like spiders too. They're very useful house guests. To be honest, it always shocked me a bit that humans haven't utilized spiders as a means of pest control the way they do for cats and dogs. Obviously, domesticating a spider on the same level is unlikely, but they don't really need much domestication. They just sit there catching things for you. |
Black Widows and Brown Recluses suck. Google what a bite from a Brown Recluse can do to someone. |
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