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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| It was also the one the man immediately jumped to. Perhaps I'm being unfair. Perhaps there was some non-wall based answer this man would have happily accepted. Perhaps if Mr. Stark articulated something more along the lines of my proposed solution, the man would have nodded and been convinced. I can't prove otherwise. I simply doubt it, very strongly. |
While googling for a response from Stark's offices, I came across another video with some additional excerpts from the meeting. The first few minutes are identical to the video in the original article, but skip to about 3:20. There you'll see another man in the audience mention a plan just like the one you outlined before, and the Minute Man appears to agree with it. |
Yeah, his response does seem to indicate he finds the idea agreeable, and in light of that, he'd probably have responded reasonably if Mr. Stark had made a similar case. You've convinced me I was probably being harsh and unfair in my judgment of the minute man in question. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| I am always a bit suspicious about why they would be at the event of a politician they obviously disagreed with. |
The event was a town hall meeting, not a political rally. The whole point of these meetings is for citizens to have a chance to voice their concerns to their elected representatives. |
Ok, I didn't realize that, that makes more sense.
[quote="geldedgoat"]
| Leon wrote: |
| Quote: |
| He was also affiliated with the minute men which the politician, and many others, obviously have a problem with. |
Watch the extended video found above, and you'll see many people who "obviously have a problem with" Rep. Stark, yet they somehow manage to compose themselves like mature adults.
| Quote: |
| So was it polite, no, but I've seen so much mocking on both sides, meaning both left and right as well as between politicians and event goers. In this climate playing nice doesn't work well, which is unfortunate, but there it is. |
I have a feeling this has turned into me just beating a dead horse, but I can't believe how blas� you are with political disagreements being turned into fierce hatred. The video shows an isolated event in which one "side" remains polite and professional while the other immediately flips his F%&* YOU! switch. His behavior was far, far beyond merely not being polite. |
This is pretty much how politics have always been. I could show you hundreds of videos of similar things from any political position.
[quote="geldedgoat"]
| Leon wrote: |
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| The people were a part of a vigilante group, hard to take them seriously. |
What vigilante group are you talking about? Only one man was identified as a member of an organization that patrols various areas along the southern border and reports illegal activity to the proper authorities. By the definition of the word, then, the group does not engage in vigilantism. |
I got the impression that more than one was from the video, if I was wrong, then ok.
[quote="geldedgoat"]
| Leon wrote: |
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| I do wonder what he was doing in front of that audience, he let them make there points and let them sound foolish. It's kind of a cruel trick, but I'd say it worked. |
 I would ask why you believe the man's points to foolish, but I doubt I'd get much out of you. Feel free to share, though, if you'd like. |
The costs of the operation the man suggested versus the benefit is the main reason. People are going to find a way across, so I would say that it would be very hard to make our borders more secure. The cartels have the resources and profit motivation to make it across regardless of what we do. We would only be stopping those who cross to work, but even those would find a way as well. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Yeah, his response does seem to indicate he finds the idea agreeable, and in light of that, he'd probably have responded reasonably if Mr. Stark had made a similar case. You've convinced me I was probably being harsh and unfair in my judgment of the minute man in question. |
You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. 
Going back briefly to the man's concerns, I believe we definitely do need, for various reasons, some manner of increased border security, though what form it should take I don't know. I agree that a simple, physical wall is, as evidenced by the repeatedly-crossed physical walls we have now, little more than a costly bone tossed to the right-leaning masses. Active and responsive patrols and surveillance would be more effective, but those are even more costly. The benefits in employing more border patrolmen, though, may balance these costs, as unemployment rates in the border states are at or above the national average.
In the end, in comparison to all the stupid crap the government throws money at, making efforts to stop the influx of gangs, violence, unregulated drugs, and, yes, illegal workers* seems to me like a worthwhile endeavor.
*I personally know quite a few construction workers, plumbers, electricians, and kitchen workers, among other professions, that have all been displaced or been forced to accept greatly reduced pay because of the large influx of underpaid laborers. I used to help my brother on his plumbing contracts between semesters, but getting less than $10 an hour to dig up buried pipes and crawl under houses in the stifling Southern summer heat just isn't worth it now.
| Leon wrote: |
| This is pretty much how politics have always been. I could show you hundreds of videos of similar things from any political position. |
If you do, I would be right there condemning those politicians, pundits, whatever as well. I didn't choose this video because it showcased a Democrat, I chose it because the behavior was so outrageous. I honestly don't care which side it's coming from, it's disgusting.
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| The costs of the operation the man suggested versus the benefit is the main reason. |
Perhaps, but, again, building a wall and lining it with troops was not the focus of his concerns. He supported at least one other approach in the extended video. He merely wanted something more to be done, and I can find very little in that to be foolish. |
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brickabrack
Joined: 17 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:43 am Post subject: |
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"If you want to deal with illegal immigrants, you need to put pressure on the people who actually have something to lose: the people hiring them."
THE #1 problem. But, the same employers have a foot in pushing policies that allow the behaviour. I watched a silly sitcom years ago:
"The Day the Mexicans Disappeared", I think it was called.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall! Effin politics. |
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