|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| People in the UK haven't always been so nice to animals. My dear deceased gramps told me that when he was young, it was common to dispose of unwanted puppies by putting them in a sack and throwing them into a river. That was back in the 1930's though, and a lot of people could barely afford to feed themselves, let alone a dog. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mithridates wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| This won't win me popularity points but in spite of that I was his friend as well. It's his farm, anything that comes on that farm he can do with as he pleases. |
| Quote: |
| He thought I was a nut too for not harming a fly, but that didn't stop us from being friends. To anyones pets he'd be as gentle as a lamb, but he drew a clear distinct line between pet and animal. |
What would happen when someone's pet mistakenly makes its way onto his farm? |
If its a pet that can kill then its fair game. Most farmers are good enough to know their neighbors pets and to take care, but the second a stray threatens the livestock its life is forfeit.
A few years back there was an incident where a neighbor's dog wandered onto someone else's farm one night and killed some livestock. The stray was killed (either by its owner or by the neighbor, I forgot which, but I think it was the neighbor) and both neighbors understood what had happened- the stray had taken out livestock, it had to be put down. No accusatory fingers, no wailing by the stray's owner or the farmer who lost some livestock, just the simple understanding of how things work when it comes to animals on farms. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| madoka wrote: |
| nautilus wrote: |
| But while western countries agonise over how humane it is to extinguish a cow in a millisecond with an electronic prodder, korea sees nothing wrong with torturing live cats and dogs to death for half an hour..in the most barbaric fashion imaginable.. before finally dismembering them. |
So stupid and offensive at so many levels. Korea should consider an IQ test before they let any idiot become a "teacher." |
You're offended by the truth?
I've seen dogs beaten alive for 5 -10 minutes by a guy with an iron bar before later cooking and dinner. Do you deny this happens? Not sure what your point is...better explain yourself. Try to be articulate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nautilus wrote: |
You're offended by the truth?
I've seen dogs beaten alive for 5 -10 minutes by a guy with an iron bar before later cooking and dinner. Do you deny this happens? Not sure what your point is...better explain yourself. Try to be articulate. |
You make it sound like this is so common that hearing the cries of a dog in pain fills the night air all over the country. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jvalmer wrote: |
You make it sound like this is so common that hearing the cries of a dog in pain fills the night air all over the country. |
it probably does, when you consider that thousands of dogs are eaten every day in the country.
Point is.. we have an imbecile here (mad doka) who is trying to defend animal cruelty. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| This won't win me popularity points but in spite of that I was his friend as well. It's his farm, anything that comes on that farm he can do with as he pleases. |
| Quote: |
| He thought I was a nut too for not harming a fly, but that didn't stop us from being friends. To anyones pets he'd be as gentle as a lamb, but he drew a clear distinct line between pet and animal. |
What would happen when someone's pet mistakenly makes its way onto his farm? |
If its a pet that can kill then its fair game. Most farmers are good enough to know their neighbors pets and to take care, but the second a stray threatens the livestock its life is forfeit.
A few years back there was an incident where a neighbor's dog wandered onto someone else's farm one night and killed some livestock. The stray was killed (either by its owner or by the neighbor, I forgot which, but I think it was the neighbor) and both neighbors understood what had happened- the stray had taken out livestock, it had to be put down. No accusatory fingers, no wailing by the stray's owner or the farmer who lost some livestock, just the simple understanding of how things work when it comes to animals on farms. |
That's what I thought - your friend's logic is flawed. 'How things work when it comes to animals on farms' could mean simply paying for the damages caused by one's pet, not letting the other farmer kill it and then shrugging it off. What they've created is an environment where pets are either confined to the house or run the risk of death at a farmer's hand every day, as there is 1) no way to explain to the pet where to and where not to go, and 2) no way to distinguish between a pet and a stray, and the execution is instantaneous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mithridates wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| This won't win me popularity points but in spite of that I was his friend as well. It's his farm, anything that comes on that farm he can do with as he pleases. |
| Quote: |
| He thought I was a nut too for not harming a fly, but that didn't stop us from being friends. To anyones pets he'd be as gentle as a lamb, but he drew a clear distinct line between pet and animal. |
What would happen when someone's pet mistakenly makes its way onto his farm? |
If its a pet that can kill then its fair game. Most farmers are good enough to know their neighbors pets and to take care, but the second a stray threatens the livestock its life is forfeit.
A few years back there was an incident where a neighbor's dog wandered onto someone else's farm one night and killed some livestock. The stray was killed (either by its owner or by the neighbor, I forgot which, but I think it was the neighbor) and both neighbors understood what had happened- the stray had taken out livestock, it had to be put down. No accusatory fingers, no wailing by the stray's owner or the farmer who lost some livestock, just the simple understanding of how things work when it comes to animals on farms. |
That's what I thought - your friend's logic is flawed. 'How things work when it comes to animals on farms' could mean simply paying for the damages caused by one's pet, not letting the other farmer kill it and then shrugging it off. What they've created is an environment where pets are either confined to the house or run the risk of death at a farmer's hand every day, as there is 1) no way to explain to the pet where to and where not to go, and 2) no way to distinguish between a pet and a stray, and the execution is instantaneous. |
Well I wasn't involved in this particular incident nor was my friend, but from how everyone clucked over it the general consensus was that since the dog had demonstrated the ability to get loose and then demonstrated that its loose instinct was to attack livestock the dog had to be dealt with.
This came out of a code that most farmers generally accept. Farmers don't want bad blood between each other but if one has a stray dog that keeps on getting loose and killing another farmer's livelihood, even with financial compensation, that will bring about bad blood.
It was guessed that neither of the farmers involved wanted to deal with the courts and that the biggest concern of the livestock owner was the prevention of any future attacks. A one-time incident is different than a continual pattern. If the animal got loose again it'd probably go right back to that farm and do it again. It'd gotten 'the taste' for livestock and now it was a danger to the other animals.
As for my friend and his distinguishing between strays and pets an animal that is under the supervised care or on the property of its owner is a pet. Once it leaves, its a stray. Also to be considered is the breed of dog involved as well as the presence of any tags. Untagged, unsupervised errant dog of a non-rat sized breed= stray and a threat to a farmer's livestock.
Also the livestock owner's animals should not be subjected to the cruelty of fatal dog attacks.
Besides a livestock farmer who looks at his animals all as pets is in the wrong business. You're not in that business to raise them through their natural life cycle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| This won't win me popularity points but in spite of that I was his friend as well. It's his farm, anything that comes on that farm he can do with as he pleases. |
| Quote: |
| He thought I was a nut too for not harming a fly, but that didn't stop us from being friends. To anyones pets he'd be as gentle as a lamb, but he drew a clear distinct line between pet and animal. |
What would happen when someone's pet mistakenly makes its way onto his farm? |
If its a pet that can kill then its fair game. Most farmers are good enough to know their neighbors pets and to take care, but the second a stray threatens the livestock its life is forfeit.
A few years back there was an incident where a neighbor's dog wandered onto someone else's farm one night and killed some livestock. The stray was killed (either by its owner or by the neighbor, I forgot which, but I think it was the neighbor) and both neighbors understood what had happened- the stray had taken out livestock, it had to be put down. No accusatory fingers, no wailing by the stray's owner or the farmer who lost some livestock, just the simple understanding of how things work when it comes to animals on farms. |
That's what I thought - your friend's logic is flawed. 'How things work when it comes to animals on farms' could mean simply paying for the damages caused by one's pet, not letting the other farmer kill it and then shrugging it off. What they've created is an environment where pets are either confined to the house or run the risk of death at a farmer's hand every day, as there is 1) no way to explain to the pet where to and where not to go, and 2) no way to distinguish between a pet and a stray, and the execution is instantaneous. |
Well I wasn't involved in this particular incident nor was my friend, but from how everyone clucked over it the general consensus was that since the dog had demonstrated the ability to get loose and then demonstrated that its loose instinct was to attack livestock the dog had to be dealt with.
This came out of a code that most farmers generally accept. Farmers don't want bad blood between each other but if one has a stray dog that keeps on getting loose and killing another farmer's livelihood, even with financial compensation, that will bring about bad blood.
It was guessed that neither of the farmers involved wanted to deal with the courts and that the biggest concern of the livestock owner was the prevention of any future attacks. A one-time incident is different than a continual pattern. If the animal got loose again it'd probably go right back to that farm and do it again. It'd gotten 'the taste' for livestock and now it was a danger to the other animals.
As for my friend and his distinguishing between strays and pets an animal that is under the supervised care or on the property of its owner is a pet. Once it leaves, its a stray. Also to be considered is the breed of dog involved as well as the presence of any tags. Untagged, unsupervised errant dog of a non-rat sized breed= stray and a threat to a farmer's livestock.
Also the livestock owner's animals should not be subjected to the cruelty of fatal dog attacks.
Besides a livestock farmer who looks at his animals all as pets is in the wrong business. You're not in that business to raise them through their natural life cycle. |
I suppose tagging would work then? As long as there is an agreement to tag pets and keep a good eye out for the tags then that could work among them. I suppose I'm asking because once our cat back in Calgary was captured by a neighbour for wandering onto his yard and we had to get her back from the, er...cat pound. We knew all our neighbours and we were all fine with having pets but she must have gone extra far that day. In Calgary a house owner can legally do that but if it was a situation akin to the farms you mentioned she probably would have been killed. She always had a collar on though and a tattoo in her ear as well. She did catch many a bird though.
That last point about livestock farmers is my point as well, by the way, because since the livestock is money in the end and the other animals are pets there should be no reason why a person's whose pet who has caused X amount of damage shouldn't be able to just pay the amount the livestock would have been worth and then let bygones be bygones. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Fox wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Heck I knew a guy form back home who disposed of the excess cats on his farm by burying them to their necks and running them over with a lawnmower.  |
Did you call the police? |
We had to deal with unwanted kittens too. We'd put them in a potato sack with rocks and throw them in the pond. This upset my city-slicker cousin who insisted we stop. The compromise was to put the kittens out in the trees and let the foxes at them. Either way you get the same outcome. I don't know if being torn apart by foxes is better than drowning.
The cats on a farm are for rodent control. If there are too many they become a pest themselves. They aren't worth a .22 round. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Just out of curiosity who here grew up on a farm? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mithridates wrote: |
| no way to explain to the pet where to and where not to go. |
In my exp. a well-cared-for pet does not tend to stray, seek out extra food or do damage. They live within a clearly defined territory which they do not wonder from, which is delineated by their master...which they see as the pack leader.
The problem really.. is strays..that have to find ways to fend for themselves. here we come back to the problem of people neglecting or abandoning pets.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| who here grew up on a farm? |
Partly...
| Mith wrote: |
| pet who has caused X amount of damage shouldn't be able to just pay the amount the livestock |
What damage? I mean, I don't see that dogs or cats generally do any damage to livestock. Sure cats might possibly take chicks from the hen run but then again, I have never heard of this.
What I'm saying is that humans have an instinctive tendency to demonise and victimise any animals that they do not own or control. Usually through a whole lot of unsubstantiated hearsay and without evidence.
"Hawks kill lambs"
"Crows peck out sheeps eyes"
"Wolves eat babies"
"Cats kill livestock"...etc.
its all a load of superstitious and unfounded baloney invented as an excuse for people to go out and kill stuff that they don't really understand.
Last edited by nautilus on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nautilus wrote: |
| Mith wrote: |
| pet who has caused X amount of damage shouldn't be able to just pay the amount the livestock |
What damage? I mean, I don't see that dogs or cats generally do any damage to livestock. Sure cats might possibly take chicks from the hen run but then again, I have never heard of this.
Dogs potentially might harras lambs but then again, this is all behaviour that is easily corrected by a loving owner. Its only the homeless strays that ever cause any problems in my exp, and these are really minor stuff like rooting through trash. |
It usually depends on the house owner. If they're decent enough then they let small things slide, and if not they like to make it seem like their whole life would be perfect if it weren't for the occasional cat dump in the flower bed that ruined everything. My cat in Calgary though liked to spend hours outside looking for things to hunt and certainly would have brought back chicks if we were on a farm. Sometimes it was to eat, other times she would bring back dead birds as presents when someone was sad. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Just out of curiosity who here grew up on a farm? |
I did. My family grew tobacco when I was growing up. Last year and, to a lesser extent, this year I've grown corn, beans, okra, and various other crops. I'm transitioning it into fruit orchards and crops of various types of berry bushes so they can be growing when I go and live in Asia.
I like to have cats around on the farm to eliminate the rodent population. The added bonus is that it reduces the snake population since there's less prey around for the snakes to eat.
I can confirm a lot of what Steelrails has said about stray dogs and stuff. When you see them attacking a calf, they pretty much have to be put down. Racoons have to be killed in order to have a corn crop. Crows too. I'm for killing them, but doing so as humanely and quickly as possible.
As for the cats, when I was living in Nashville and had never been to Korea, I had a Korean girlfriend who called me up one day and asked me if I was familiar with cats. I told her something like, "Oh yeah, I love cats." She then told me that a cat had a litter of kittens in her garage and she was afraid of them and asked if I could move them. I thought it was all just a ploy to have me come over to screw, so of course I went. When I arrived, there was no momma cat nor kittens to be seen and she told me that the cat ended up being a neighbor's and he had come and got the cat and the litter of kittens. She said that she was afraid of cats, including kittens and mentioned something about their eyes.
For years, I still thought that had just been an excuse to have me come over to screw until I was chatting online with a girlfriend in Korea a while back. I told her I had to take my favorite cat to the vet because she was acting like she wasn't feeling well. She asked me if I like cats and I told her that I love cats. She said she didn't like them because of their eyes.
Is it true that animals are beaten to death in Korea? When I'm in Korea, maybe I need to start buying my meat at a halal butchery on Hooker Hill or something.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Heck I knew a guy form back home who disposed of the excess cats on his farm by burying them to their necks and running them over with a lawnmower. |
Did you call the police? |
We had to deal with unwanted kittens too. We'd put them in a potato sack with rocks and throw them in the pond. This upset my city-slicker cousin who insisted we stop. The compromise was to put the kittens out in the trees and let the foxes at them. Either way you get the same outcome. I don't know if being torn apart by foxes is better than drowning.
The cats on a farm are for rodent control. If there are too many they become a pest themselves. They aren't worth a .22 round. |
Maybe I'm missing something, but couldn't people get the cats fixed and not have kittens? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| It costs $200 to spay a cat. A typical farm has 15 or more cats. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
