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Foreign teacher accused of sexually abusing students (Daegu)
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrwhite82 wrote:
Any teaching job in the States I've heard of will require you to have a background check as well. By the FBI AND the State. The tedious process is because the documents have to go internationally, and they are trying to prevent someone from forging them. I'm not exactly sure if it works, but if it stops just one molester from seeking work overseas it is worth it in my book.

So if someone reforms his life and gets out of prison, he should not be allowed to work again? Then just how is he supposed to survive without resorting to a life of crime again?

Quote:
If pot is such a big part of your life, then teaching as a profession in Korea (or anywhere else) may not be for you.

But it's cool if you are an alky???

Quote:
Now the AIDS/Health check is pretty ridiculous.

So let's see if I got this straight: you favor a background check despite no evidence that it deters future crime; a pot test because a teacher was just accused of sex abuse of a minor; but not an HIV/AIDS test which might cause your child to be exposed to a fatal virus. Rolling Eyes

Steelrails wrote:
nautilus wrote:
rollo wrote:
If i were a parent after learning of that i would want the most rigorous background checks for people around my child. They may not be foolproof but I would want them.


would you want cannabis blood tests for them as well?


Why not. Along with tests for 'hard' drugs.

Why not a test for alcohol as well? Would you really want a bunch of alcohol abusers teaching your children? Just because it is legal doesn't mean it's good.

What about guys who smoke cigarettes, or worse yet, cigars? You can't tell me you want your kids exposed to carcinogenic second-hand smoke. Even if they don't smoke around your kids, do you really want them to be role models for your kids?

What about guys who frequent prostitutes? How about we require all NETs to wear GPS devices just to make sure that they never go anywhere they shouldn't? After all, if it only saves one child, isn't it worth it? Rolling Eyes

nautilus wrote:
What measures can be taken to prevent the likes of CPN and this latest paedo from getting into the country?

I would say the following:
1) require a national CBC, not merely one from a particular state.
2) Include a couple of well-esteemed professional foreigners in the vetting procedure. Koreans simply don't know how to read the cultural signs of wether someone is a likely risk or not. They seem not to be good judges of character either where foreigners are concerned.
*3) Testing for cannabis is virtually irrelevant when it comes to keeping out abusers.

Not only did CPN have a clean CBC, he was never even accused of touching a child in Korea.

And do tell us, nauti, just what are "the cultural signs of wether someone is a likely risk or not"?


Last edited by bacasper on Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am confortable with the idea of putting measures in place that will deter criminals and paedos from getting work in Korea.

Thats the aim of these measures. Nothing more, nothing less.

The way they justify the measures is tinged with political considerations as such measures always are....too bad but this is the way such things work.
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:

What could and should be done is to streamline the process. Have a database in place where visa renewal is made simpler for those already in Korea. The CBC could still be required but should be from Korean police.


That is my main gripe- having to send the same documents again when they've already been verified multiple times previously. Why no database?
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El Macho



Joined: 07 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
jrwhite82 wrote:
Any teaching job in the States I've heard of will require you to have a background check as well. By the FBI AND the State. The tedious process is because the documents have to go internationally, and they are trying to prevent someone from forging them. I'm not exactly sure if it works, but if it stops just one molester from seeking work overseas it is worth it in my book.

So if someone reforms his life and gets out of prison, he should not be allowed to work again? Then just how is he supposed to survive without resorting to a life of crime again?
This is a straw man. Of course the person can work again. Depending upon the offense, they may even be able to work as a teacher again. However, s/he may not be able to teach in Korea. That's OK; there are plenty of other jobs in the world.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
The CBC should be comprehensive. That check will not keep out every paedo but it will act as a deterent (this has to be the intent here). The deterent reduces the number of paedos that can get to Korea so in that respect the screening meets its main goal.

Drug screens are deterents, just like the CBC. The aim is to reduce the number of drug users who get a work visa. Again, completely reasonable.

As a parent of 2, I think checks should be in place for teachers, especially those that are hired sight unseen from abroad. It is one thing to check on someone who is a citizen and who therefore has a local history that can be verified. It is another to hire someone from abroad when you have far fewer ways to evaluate them.
I agree with you completely. The federal + state CBC are required for teachers in the States. There's no reason they shouldn't be required for the same people to teach abroad.

While drug testing isn't always mandated for employment as a teacher in the US (teacher unions are fighting against random drug testing for on-the-job teachers; not sure how it works for hiring), it is a convenient way to screen out teachers from abroad that are coming in largely sight unseen. The comparisons to alcohol use that so many in this thread have made are red herrings; alcohol is legal in Korea, pot is not. Korea screens for something that is illegal. End of story.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do believe we are tested for alcohol as I was warned not to drink the day before my test and that a positive result would result in my dismissal.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

El Macho wrote:
bacasper wrote:
jrwhite82 wrote:
Any teaching job in the States I've heard of will require you to have a background check as well. By the FBI AND the State. The tedious process is because the documents have to go internationally, and they are trying to prevent someone from forging them. I'm not exactly sure if it works, but if it stops just one molester from seeking work overseas it is worth it in my book.

So if someone reforms his life and gets out of prison, he should not be allowed to work again? Then just how is he supposed to survive without resorting to a life of crime again?
This is a straw man. Of course the person can work again. Depending upon the offense, they may even be able to work as a teacher again. However, s/he may not be able to teach in Korea. That's OK; there are plenty of other jobs in the world.

But that's not what jrwhite said. He said "work overseas" and that also the checks are required in the states. Where else is left? And if you think it is a good policy for Korea, don't you think it would be good for other countries and that they should implement them, too? How what places are left?

Quote:
The federal + state CBC are required for teachers in the States. There's no reason they shouldn't be required for the same people to teach abroad.

Why did you leave home in the first place if you want this place to be just like it?

Quote:
The comparisons to alcohol use that so many in this thread have made are red herrings; alcohol is legal in Korea, pot is not. Korea screens for something that is illegal. End of story.

So there we have it. You are not concerned whatsoever with the welfare of Korean children, only with near-fascistic strict allegiance to an ever increasing authoritarian edifice. Got it now.
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Yucca Girl



Joined: 03 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand that people are frustrated with the way new immigration regulations are introduced and the fact that no one seems to know exactly what is going on with background checks and drug testing, but honestly, I don't see what the issue is with having to submit a background check.
Frankly, if I were a parent I would definitely want the people working with my children to have background checks done on them. I think background checks for anyone wanting to work with children are fairly standard in many countries. Why should Korea be any different? It isn't that background checks will necessarily weed out every person who might abuse or molest children. I would imagine that most individuals who have committed child sexual abuse are in fact never prosecuted or even arrested, but at least background checks have the potential to filter out those that have already been convicted of crimes involving children.
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El Macho



Joined: 07 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
El Macho wrote:
This is a straw man. Of course the person can work again. Depending upon the offense, they may even be able to work as a teacher again. However, s/he may not be able to teach in Korea. That's OK; there are plenty of other jobs in the world.

But that's not what jrwhite said. He said "work overseas"�

What you said was a straw man fallacy because you implied that the person with a criminal record wouldn't be able to work at all, forcing them to make an illicit living. That's simply not the case, though it may require a career change.
As you point out, he said "work", not "teach". There are other jobs to be done overseas. Some of them are even related to education but don't require exposure to children (writing, editing).
Edit: Also, "overseas" means more than just Korea.
bacasper wrote:
�and that also the checks are required in the states. Where else is left? And if you think it is a good policy for Korea, don't you think it would be good for other countries and that they should implement them, too? How what places are left?
China is left. I've met a huge number of ex-cons there who are masquerading as teachers. Latin America is left. Much of the developing world is "left" in terms of what they require of their foreign teachers.
Since you asked, Yes, I do think that the same standards should be applied everywhere. If someone isn't qualified to teach at home, they shouldn't be able to teach abroad. Simple as that.
bacasper wrote:
El Macho wrote:
The federal + state CBC are required for teachers in the States. There's no reason they shouldn't be required for the same people to teach abroad.
Why did you leave home in the first place if you want this place to be just like it?
Rolling Eyes You caught me! I'm just a cultural imperialist wishing to live a colonial life abroad. Gadzooks!
I think all of us here agree that no child should be exposed to paedophiles and/or abusers at school. A simple way of doing this is making sure that teachers and professional caretakers do not have a history of abusing children. While this is not a perfect way of avoiding abuse, it is much better than doing nothing.

bacasper wrote:
Quote:
The comparisons to alcohol use that so many in this thread have made are red herrings; alcohol is legal in Korea, pot is not. Korea screens for something that is illegal. End of story.

So there we have it. You are not concerned whatsoever with the welfare of Korean children, only with near-fascistic strict allegiance to an ever increasing authoritarian edifice. Got it now.
Laughing Laughing Yep, you got it now.
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jrwhite82



Joined: 22 May 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Casper
Please show me where I said a pot test will prevent a child molester from working in Korea? I said it will prevent a DRUG abuser.

If a person is a convicted sex offender, then I think his supervisor should be aware of that before hiring him for a position where he will be teaching children. Is that such a crazy thing to think? If the guy had a DUI 10 years ago and hasn't been arrested since, well then no that shouldn't stop someone from teaching but your criminal history should be something your boss is aware of. If I am investing my money into someone working for me and is going to be a liability for me working around CHILDREN, then I want to know as much about them as I can before making that investment.

Having HIV/AIDS has nothing to do with your character and does not make you dangerous to be around children (unless you're spraying blood/semen all over them). Having drugs in your system does make you dangerous (although pot 3 weeks later isn't dangerous, but it does show that you do use drugs and are so involved with them that you can't not do them for a few weeks to get a job). Having been previously convicted of child molestation makes you a liability.

Did I say anything about alcohol? If you are caught abusing alcohol while working with children (showing up drunk, drinking on the job or hungover to the point where it effects your ability to work) then yeah, you should be fired/punished.


Casper, "What about guys who smoke cigarettes, or worse yet, cigars? You can't tell me you want your kids exposed to carcinogenic second-hand smoke." If a teacher is smoking in a classroom around the kids, then they should be fired/punished and they will because it is against the law or rules of the school.

"Even if they don't smoke around your kids, do you really want them to be role models for your kids?" No I don't want them being a role model for MY kids. But it is not illegal, so you can't do anything about it. I would choose not to send my children to these teachers if given the choice.

"What about guys who frequent prostitutes?" How is frequenting a prostitute endangering a child (unless said prostitute is a child or bringing a child to watch)? If he gets caught, his employer should be notified and appropriate actions should be taken. Most contracts you sign both in the US and Korea require you to notify your boss if you are arrested.
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jrwhite82



Joined: 22 May 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Casper:

I see what you are saying about my post. I meant if it stops convicted child molsters from working WITH CHILDREN overseas. I didn't mean any work in general. I didn't make that clear.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So today at work all the Korean teachers are wearing name tags. I just found out that its to identify them to the parents so that the parents know they aren't sexual predators.

Of course I was left out of the loop because "everyone knows who I am so it won't be a problem." Funny I don't hear any of my colleagues wailing about how unfair it is that they have to wear name tags and I don't.

Yeah its really drilled into their heads that us NETs are out to get their kids and foreigners are perverts. Rolling Eyes
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
So today at work all the Korean teachers are wearing name tags. I just found out that its to identify them to the parents so that the parents know they aren't sexual predators.

Of course I was left out of the loop because "everyone knows who I am so it won't be a problem." Funny I don't hear any of my colleagues wailing about how unfair it is that they have to wear name tags and I don't.


Yeah, that's happening at a school in my city too (though not mine). The difference being that the foreigners at that school have to wear the name tags as well.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

El Macho wrote:
bacasper wrote:
El Macho wrote:
This is a straw man. Of course the person can work again. Depending upon the offense, they may even be able to work as a teacher again. However, s/he may not be able to teach in Korea. That's OK; there are plenty of other jobs in the world.

But that's not what jrwhite said. He said "work overseas"�

What you said was a straw man fallacy because you implied that the person with a criminal record wouldn't be able to work at all, forcing them to make an illicit living. That's simply not the case, though it may require a career change.

I only implied it because jrwhite SAID it. He has now even admitted he misspoke.
jrwhite82 wrote:
I see what you are saying about my post... I didn't make that clear.

Still wanna defend him?

El Macho wrote:
As you point out, he said "work", not "teach". There are other jobs to be done overseas. Some of them are even related to education but don't require exposure to children (writing, editing).
Edit: Also, "overseas" means more than just Korea
.
JR said he wanted the US checks to be applied "overseas," too. Let me explain it mathematically:
US + "overseas" = the whole world.

Quote:
bacasper wrote:
El Macho wrote:
The federal + state CBC are required for teachers in the States. There's no reason they shouldn't be required for the same people to teach abroad.
Why did you leave home in the first place if you want this place to be just like it?
Rolling Eyes You caught me! I'm just a cultural imperialist wishing to live a colonial life abroad. Gadzooks!

Glad you find it funny. Not all of us do.

Quote:
I think all of us here agree that no child should be exposed to paedophiles and/or abusers at school. A simple way of doing this is making sure that teachers and professional caretakers do not have a history of abusing children. While this is not a perfect way of avoiding abuse, it is much better than doing nothing.

You cannot empirically demonstrate that.

Quote:
bacasper wrote:
Quote:
The comparisons to alcohol use that so many in this thread have made are red herrings; alcohol is legal in Korea, pot is not. Korea screens for something that is illegal. End of story.

So there we have it. You are not concerned whatsoever with the welfare of Korean children, only with near-fascistic strict allegiance to an ever increasing authoritarian edifice. Got it now.
Laughing Laughing Yep, you got it now.

Your sense of humor and moral logic are bizarre. I'll use a couple more equations to demonstrate what you are saying:
    Illegal + harmless = bad
    Legal + harmful = good
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
The difference being that the foreigners at that school have to wear the name tags as well.


Berlin, 1939.
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:

And do tell us, nauti, just what are "the cultural signs of wether someone is a likely risk or not"?


They make a lot of anti-semitic posts.
They leap to defend paedos and incest.
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