| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:18 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| nautilus wrote: |
It would change though if more people got involved. Its not worth Police time to arrest a vigilante mob of a hundred people.
As in this clip of street justice in china. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXBlAk1wKw |
Hey! Proof that they can actually all attack at the same time!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jd126
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Gipkik wrote: |
| nautilus wrote: |
It would change though if more people got involved. Its not worth Police time to arrest a vigilante mob of a hundred people.
As in this clip of street justice in china.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXBlAk1wKw |
Having seen purse snatchers in Nam and China get away with it, that was very satisfying. 
However, with mobs, there's always the problem of proportionate justice. I've seen how far it can go--which usually means a rather gruesome death sentence. |
Indeed. I think that mob reaction was pretty unusual. I guess usually people follow the crowd, usually doing nothing that is?
This is sort of interesting. I was drinking with fellow white buddy once on the street in Nanjing. I didn't see it but he did. A Chinese dude snatched the cell phone unawares from a Korean girl walking the other way. (There are many Korean students in that area. She was with 2 or 3 friends.) My buddy confronted him and got the phone back and gave it to the girl. The guy cursed at him in Chinese, saying "You are not Chinese, this is not your business" or something like that. Anyway, no violence came out of it, but my buddy was worried for a week or more as this was near his home. It's common enough for an angry dude like that to get his gang together and return for "justice." I'm surprised he did what he did, it was dangerous in that regard. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
The flip side of this is vigilantism, not that appealing either.
Back home I remember there was an incident where a 5 year old girl was being raped and somebody saw and got a mob of people to go after the rapists.
The people in the mob ended up being initially charged as "Unlawful Combatants".
I am tired of the law. Custom needs to make a comeback. The law says that mob was wrong. Custom says it was right. Custom has its flaws but at least it still has a soul. |
Key word there is charged. Were they convicted? The police would have to arrest them, the DA would have to charge them, but a jury of their peers may well let them off. The reason why America has jury by trial is so that the people can decide if the law doesn't agree with the sentiment of the people on certain occasions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mariella713
Joined: 22 May 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Korea: A Nation of Bystanders |
|
|
| Quote: |
| More than 10 passengers watched the crime, which took place in a bustling area crammed with restaurants. But no one tried to stop the violence or report it to the police. |
| Quote: |
| A loud scream reverberated through the alley in her neighborhood and some neighbors even watched the scene, but no one dared to come to her rescue or report it to the police. |
That is disgusting. Anyone who just sits there and watches stuff like that going on needs some serious ass whooping. How would they feel if it was THEIR child being raped, or beaten up? To see a crowd of people just standing there staring like gawping chimpanzees? And to not even CALL THE POLICE? Damn! That's just a double blow. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NilesQ wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
The flip side of this is vigilantism, not that appealing either.
Back home I remember there was an incident where a 5 year old girl was being raped and somebody saw and got a mob of people to go after the rapists.
The people in the mob ended up being initially charged as "Unlawful Combatants".
I am tired of the law. Custom needs to make a comeback. The law says that mob was wrong. Custom says it was right. Custom has its flaws but at least it still has a soul. |
Key word there is charged. Were they convicted? The police would have to arrest them, the DA would have to charge them, but a jury of their peers may well let them off. The reason why America has jury by trial is so that the people can decide if the law doesn't agree with the sentiment of the people on certain occasions. |
Or that the jury can determine from the evidence presented if the person charged is actually guilty. Steelrails is not even listening to himself. Notice how the "hero" in his story had to get a mob together. That time would've been better served getting the cops. The link I posted upthread is very much on point. Those two gentlemen got severely beaten, sustaining permanent injury, by someone getting a mob together. In Steelrails' version of justice, all it takes for you to be condemned to an instant death sentence on the street is for someone to merely shout out that you've sexually molested a child. Now if you've actually murdered a child, then his matrix provides for maybe a death sentence.
Naw, I'll go with the rule of law and trial by jury system instead.
By the way, Steelrails; you wouldn't happen to have a link to that story and/or the outcome, would you? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have had to think about this myself. My MIL is a sweet leady but she always tells people 'don't get involved' or 'don't hit that person, you'll pay for it.' But if it comes down to someone physically touching or assaulting my wife, child, or myself, I will make that person pay. I will not take her advice.
A full nelson with smashing his head into a post sounds pretty appropriate. I don't expect the law to support me. They'd better hope they know my name or they won't catch me. I can run like a rabbit.
As far as raping a boy, I support a mob ripping him limb from limb.
In the west, there are programs like neighbourhood watch, block parents, etc. They're not perfect but certainly a start. The police can not be expected to deal with every little problem.
When I was young, I collected newspaper money, sometimes after dark. My brother and I would go around the neighbourhood together. if it was winter, we'd carry hockey sticks. If someone asked, we'd say we were just playing hockey. If someone attacked us, they'd pay for it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CentralCali wrote: |
Or that the jury can determine from the evidence presented if the person charged is actually guilty. Steelrails is not even listening to himself. Notice how the "hero" in his story had to get a mob together. That time would've been better served getting the cops. The link I posted upthread is very much on point. Those two gentlemen got severely beaten, sustaining permanent injury, by someone getting a mob together. In Steelrails' version of justice, all it takes for you to be condemned to an instant death sentence on the street is for someone to merely shout out that you've sexually molested a child. Now if you've actually murdered a child, then his matrix provides for maybe a death sentence.
Naw, I'll go with the rule of law and trial by jury system instead.
By the way, Steelrails; you wouldn't happen to have a link to that story and/or the outcome, would you? |
The fact that you think that getting the cops (and the time that takes) instead of your neighbors to deal with someone raping a child is a sign of how much one's brain can be warped by the government into trusting them more than you trust your neighbors and how much the idea of community has been destroyed in the United States.
So someone who murders a child in cold blood (not say parental accidental negligence or a stray bullet) deserves to get 25-Life and end up out in 10 because the system is too overcrowded? Where is the deterrent?
The time spent getting the mob together was yelling out to the people around that two guys were raping a girl and instead of standing there or waiting 45 minutes for the police to show up they did something.
You seem to believe that no matter what your neighborhood the cops will show up in 2 minutes.
Go ahead defend the child rapist and say they didn't deserve to get beat and instead deserved a cell.
As for my matrix the maybe part was contingent on age (not to mention how) rather than just that they were murdered. Also you missed that I emphasize 'forcible penetration of a young minor". Not just someone accusing you of fondling a 14 year-old who looks 19.
What this is about is there are certain crimes that are so heinous- rape/gruesome murder of a child (who clearly looks like a child) being some of them that if people don't call it in and let the police handle it but instead organize and take action to stop it immediately, then there shouldn't be any legal consequences.
It just boggles the mind that someone who hears the word "rape of a child" doesn't think that the perpetrator should be dead that instant, but instead wants to send them off to a sleazy criminal justice system.
CentralCali which of these are you in agreement with?
A) If one person sees a rape going on its wrong for them to go for strength in numbers by calling on their neighbors to make sure the guys are dealt with.
B) That police respond to calls at a rapid pace
C) That police don't botch things
D) That sleazy lawyers can't get criminals off on technicalities
E) That the proper emotional reaction to rape of a young child is emotional detachment and the primary concern should be for the rights of the perpetrator.
F) That prison is a place where people get rehabilitated
G) That prison sentences follow what they are initially listed as
H) That the rape victim will fully cooperate with the investigation
I) That communities should forfeit their security and protection to a police force which may not even care about them.
AS for link the story occurred about 4-6 years ago in the D. My roomate at the time was and is a firefighter for the City of Detroit. The story was being kept a little hush because the government wanted to see what limits were of that law but feared that this case might not get much sympathy. Sure enough it started to leak and from what I understand most of the charges against most of the people were dropped. This of course follows a long line of the law consistently failing poor blacks when it comes to exercising any kind of protection in their community.
From what I understand the "Time involved" consisted of the guy running into the nearest restaurant and calling everyone in there. Instead of calling the police and eating pancakes the people there went to the aid of the child. I know, real monsters they are.
I guess the government wants poor blacks to get with the program and stop showing any community loyalty or concept of being neighbors.
| Quote: |
| The reason why America has jury by trial is so that the people can decide if the law doesn't agree with the sentiment of the people on certain occasions. |
You clearly don't know much about Jury Instructions and what they are and are not allowed to consider do you?
I get what you're saying in theory CentralCali but...dude child rapists? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| So someone who murders a child in cold blood (not say parental accidental negligence or a stray bullet) deserves to get 25-Life and end up out in 10 because the system is too overcrowded? |
You lying sack of crap. Where I posted "life without parole," you pretend it's "out in 10."
I'm done with you and your trolling. You're just not worth the time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| So someone who murders a child in cold blood (not say parental accidental negligence or a stray bullet) deserves to get 25-Life and end up out in 10 because the system is too overcrowded? |
You lying sack of crap. Where I posted "life without parole," you pretend it's "out in 10."
I'm done with you and your trolling. You're just not worth the time. |
You're making a big assumption that they'll get life without parole.
I don't think I'm making a big assumption in guessing out in 10 with plea bargains, good behavior and prison overcrowding.
Dude, get a clue about the Criminal Justice System before you put so much faith in it.
Anyone who rapes a 5 year old with forcible penetration or hacks and dismembers an 8 year old or blows up a bunch of school kids like in Belsan deserves the mob. Sometimes its right there and everyone knows it and you don't need to bother with the courts. You got a unanimous verdict by the jury of your peers.
You target kids the gloves come off. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
You seem to believe that no matter what your neighborhood the cops will show up in 2 minutes. |
Thats what seems to happen in korea. You get someone e.g wrestling another person against a wall. Within 2 minutes police are on the scene.. because bystanders call the cops.
Its different in the west because there exists a code of not snitching or not involving the police unless absolutely necessary. In Korea they seem to take delight at getting other people into trouble. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nautilus wrote: |
| In Korea they seem to take delight at getting other people into trouble. |
Truer words were never spoken. I've also found Koreans to generally be the most obnoxiously busy-bodied people I've ever encountered. Additionally the pervasive always-up-in-your-face, say-whatever-you-want (often at maximum volume) style is somewhat demoralizing.
(Sorry, rant over. Phew!) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Steelrails]
| Quote: |
| The reason why America has jury by trial is so that the people can decide if the law doesn't agree with the sentiment of the people on certain occasions. |
You clearly don't know much about Jury Instructions and what they are and are not allowed to consider do you?
[/quote]
I think if you spoke to some African American prisoners in the deep south they would refute your ideas about jurys basing their decisions solely on the instructions given to them before the deliberations began.
If a jury cant or wont come to a decision, it is often the same as an aquittal. If the DA's office doesn't see a greater chance of conviction the next time around, they often don't retry the case. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NilesQ wrote: |
[quote="Steelrails]
| Quote: |
| The reason why America has jury by trial is so that the people can decide if the law doesn't agree with the sentiment of the people on certain occasions. |
You clearly don't know much about Jury Instructions and what they are and are not allowed to consider do you?
|
I think if you spoke to some African American prisoners in the deep south they would refute your ideas about jurys basing their decisions solely on the instructions given to them before the deliberations began.
If a jury cant or wont come to a decision, it is often the same as an aquittal. If the DA's office doesn't see a greater chance of conviction the next time around, they often don't retry the case.[/quote]
It's easier to get away with not following jury instructions when its in favor of the prosecution and the judge is nodding along.
I'm talking about juries not being able to go- "well we think this law is silly, so we're going to let the guy go." They can't do that. Also lawyers will argue over what factors can and cannot be considered when reaching a verdict. Sentimentality is usually reserved for sentencing rather than verdicts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BoholDiver wrote: |
As far as raping a boy, I support a mob ripping him limb from limb.
|
That is if the said mob catches the perpetrator in the act. I totally condone that. But what usually happens is that the wrong person is identified after the act and a feeding frenzy takes place. All too common. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nautilus wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
You seem to believe that no matter what your neighborhood the cops will show up in 2 minutes. |
Thats what seems to happen in korea. You get someone e.g wrestling another person against a wall. Within 2 minutes police are on the scene.. because bystanders call the cops.
Its different in the west because there exists a code of not snitching or not involving the police unless absolutely necessary. In Korea they seem to take delight at getting other people into trouble. |
Aha ha ha.
Funniest thing I ever heard. There is no such code. There is however an attitude and it is called "It doesn't involve me so I don't care."
Such as:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread564638/pg1 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
