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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
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| Any attack will be sustained over several days if not weeks. There are dozens of targets each requiring many hits. Shooting from subs won't cut it. |
The attack on Iraq and syria was done in one day.
They probably don't expect to destroy the nuclear program, they probably just intend to send a message.
Yes, we know u are on the nuclear path. We know you have no reason ti be, so back off.
Nuclear weapons are an end game. They have always been.
Its the - don't destroy us through conventional means and we wont take you out at the same time.
The US is the only country to use them, and after listening to ex WW2 soldiers on the TV, it was probably only one of two options for them.
The other option was probably a genocide. |
Yup. Just like last time. Gotta send a message, fears of WMD's, genocide.
Summer Wine, did you believe the lies about Iraq in 2003? Yes or no. Did you support that invasion? Yes or no. Did you lay in bed shaking in fear of the mushroom cloud over podunk Alabama? Yes or no.
Pity, the American soldiers in Iraq that will be turned to ground meat from the Iranian retaliation. They'll die for our freedom! The internet warriors will defend their honor. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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John Bolton pals around with terrorists
http://www.haaretz.com/misc/article-print-page/iran-exiles-rally-for-sanctions-in-paris-1.298528?trailingPath=2.169%2C
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Iran exiles rally for sanctions in Paris
Thousands attend protest organized by the National Council of Resistance of Iran, an umbrella group that includes the People's Mujahedeen Organization of Iran, recently removed from the EU's list of banned terror groups.
By The Associated Press
Thousands of supporters of an Iranian exile group are rallied north of Paris on Saturday in protest against the Iranian regime.
The event was organized by the National Council of Resistance of Iran, whose leader, Maryam Rajavi, urged the "creation of a new society, based on freedom, equality, democracy, respect for human rights and separation of religion and state".
The event Saturday in the suburb of Taverny drew former Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar and John Bolton, who served as Washington's ambassador to the UN.
The France-based umbrella group includes the People's Mujahedeen Organization of Iran, which was removed from the European Union's list of banned terrorist groups last year.
The group is also lobbying the U.S. to stop classifying it as a terrorist organization. |
Just call it the Iranian National Congress and be done with it. The WMD thing is working again so there is not much sense in writing a new script. |
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Jeonmunka
Joined: 05 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe they should just be friends. Works when I have a problem with someone. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Summer Wine, did you believe the lies about Iraq in 2003? Yes or no. Did you support that invasion? Yes or no. Did you lay in bed shaking in fear of the mushroom cloud over podunk Alabama? Yes or no.
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1. No, I was one of the few it seems who thought it was a bad decesion prior to the action and not post the action.
2. When the invasion was then going to go ahead, then Yes. I thought that Saddam should have been ousted in 1991 when most of the Shiites were in support of it. At the very least they should have been provided the same overflight protection that the kurds recieved.
3. Its too soon to tell when a Mushroom cloud will rise over the US. Though considering the aim and ideology of many of the extremist Islamic terrorist groups today, I would not rule it out.
Though I am more concerned with the breakdown of the Global system that allows easy movement around the world, the increasing security apparatus in Democratic countries and the growing weakness on the parts of countries with a belief in freedom of expression to actually stand up for those beliefs.
Any other questions? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:18 am Post subject: |
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http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2003921,00.html
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An Attack on Iran: Back on the Table
By Joe Klein
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Gates is sounding more belligerent these days. "I don't think we're prepared to even talk about containing a nuclear Iran," he told Fox News on June 20. "We do not accept the idea of Iran having nuclear weapons." In fact, Gates was reflecting a new reality in the military and intelligence communities. Diplomacy and economic pressure remain the preferred means to force Iran to negotiate a nuclear deal, but there isn't much hope that's going to happen. "Will [sanctions] deter them from their ambitions with regards to nuclear capability?" CIA Director Leon Panetta told ABC News on June 27. "Probably not." So the military option is very much back on the table.
What has changed? "I started to rethink this last November," a recently retired U.S. official with extensive knowledge of the issue told me. "We offered the Iranians a really generous deal, which their negotiators accepted," he went on, referring to the offer to exchange Iran's 1.2 tons of low-enriched uranium (3.5% pure) for higher-enriched (20%) uranium for medical research and use. "When the leadership shot that down, I began to think, Well, we made the good-faith effort to engage. What do we do now?" (See pictures of terror in Tehran.)
Other intelligence sources say that the U.S. Army's Central Command, which is in charge of organizing military operations in the Middle East, has made some real progress in planning targeted air strikes � aided, in large part, by the vastly improved human-intelligence operations in the region. "There really wasn't a military option a year ago," an Israeli military source told me. "But they've gotten serious about the planning, and the option is real now." Israel has been brought into the planning process, I'm told, because U.S. officials are frightened by the possibility that the right-wing Netanyahu government might go rogue and try to whack the Iranians on its own.
One other factor has brought the military option to a low boil: Iran's Sunni neighbors really want the U.S. to do it. When United Arab Emirates Ambassador Yousef al-Otaiba said on July 6 that he favored a military strike against Iran despite the economic and military consequences to his country, he was reflecting an increasingly adamant attitude in the region. Senior American officials who travel to the Gulf frequently say the Saudis, in particular, raise the issue with surprising ardor. Everyone from the Turks to the Egyptians to the Jordanians are threatening to go nuclear if Iran does. That is seen as a real problem in the most volatile region in the world: What happens, for example, if Saudi Arabia gets a bomb, and the deathless monarchy there is overthrown by Islamist radicals?
For the moment, the White House remains as skeptical as ever about a military strike. Most senior military leaders also believe Gates got it right the first time � even a targeted attack on Iran would be "disastrous on a number of levels." It would unify the Iranian people against the latest in a long series of foreign interventions. It would also unify much of the world � including countries like Russia and China that we've worked hard to cultivate � against a recowboyfied U.S. There would certainly be an Iranian reaction � in Iraq, in Afghanistan, by Lebanese Hizballah against Israel and by the Hizballah network against the U.S. and Saudi homelands. A catastrophic regional war is not impossible. (See who's who in Barack Obama's White House.)
Of course, it is also possible that this low-key saber-rattling is simply a message the U.S. is trying to send the Iranians: it's time to deal. There have been rumblings from Tehran about resuming negotiations, although the regime has very little credibility right now. The assumption � shared even by some of Iran's former friends, like the Russians � is that any Iranian offer to talk is really an offer to stall. A specific, plausible Iranian concession may be needed to get the process back on track. But it is also possible that the saber-rattling is not a bluff, that the U.S. really won't tolerate a nuclear Iran and is prepared to do something awful to stop it. |
If you see Time as an arm of the government, which is appropriate, this article functions to butter up the population for war. We've tried it all, you see. Iran just refuses to be civilized. Saudi wants it too, so we're cool with muslims for attacking yet another muslim country. We really don't want to do this but if we don't the world will end.
Last edited by mises on Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| No, I was one of the few it seems who thought it was a bad decesion prior to the action and not post the action. |
Me too. Glad to hear it.
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| Though I am more concerned with the breakdown of the Global system that allows easy movement around the world, the increasing security apparatus in Democratic countries and the growing weakness on the parts of countries with a belief in freedom of expression to actually stand up for those beliefs. |
A consequence of the wars. A society that is permanently at war with everything and nothing will not maintain civil liberties. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
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| Though I am more concerned with the breakdown of the Global system that allows easy movement around the world, the increasing security apparatus in Democratic countries and the growing weakness on the parts of countries with a belief in freedom of expression to actually stand up for those beliefs. |
A consequence of the wars. A society that is permanently at war with everything and nothing will not maintain civil liberties. |
Its a consequence of terrorism. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
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| Though I am more concerned with the breakdown of the Global system that allows easy movement around the world, the increasing security apparatus in Democratic countries and the growing weakness on the parts of countries with a belief in freedom of expression to actually stand up for those beliefs. |
A consequence of the wars. A society that is permanently at war with everything and nothing will not maintain civil liberties. |
Its a consequence of terrorism. |
Cart before the horse. Terrorism is a consequence of a system addicted to ever increasing profit and permanent war. If it didn't exist, we'd have to invent it. (Wait a minute - we did!  ) |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Though I am more concerned with the breakdown of the Global system that allows easy movement around the world, the increasing security apparatus in Democratic countries and the growing weakness on the parts of countries with a belief in freedom of expression to actually stand up for those beliefs. |
A consequence of the wars. A society that is permanently at war with everything and nothing will not maintain civil liberties. |
Its a consequence of terrorism. |
Cart before the horse. Terrorism is a consequence of a system addicted to ever increasing profit and permanent war. If it didn't exist, we'd have to invent it. (Wait a minute - we did! ) |
Intervening superseding cause. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| September 11th, 2001. The day history began. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Can't see the Obama administration doing it but once the next Republican administration gets in an invasion will definitely be on the cards. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| September 11th, 2001. The day history began. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| September 11th, 2001. The day history began. |
My bad. I forgot the Crusades. |
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