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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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 Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| There is such a thing as vigilante mobs in Korea. They leap into action against foreigners pretty quick. Especially if the foreigner is seen trying to help some defenceless person being attacked. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Right. And let's not forget that wonderful mob on the train who decided to punish a foreigner for touching a Korean woman. Of course, the simple fact that the foreign man and the Korean woman are married to each other was just inconvenient to the mob.
Yeah, those of you supporting mob justice really do need to re-evaluate your sense of morality. As in getting one. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
Right. And let's not forget that wonderful mob on the train who decided to punish a foreigner for touching a Korean woman. Of course, the simple fact that the foreign man and the Korean woman are married to each other was just inconvenient to the mob.
Yeah, those of you supporting mob justice really do need to re-evaluate your sense of morality. As in getting one. |
And those who watch children getting raped and are dispassionate about it need to evaluate their morals, as in getting some. That and not having any concept of neighborhood.
Who said I supported mob justice in an incident like that?
It was a specific incident- A 5 year old was getting raped by two guys and the 1 guy who saw it got a group of people and they beat the crap out of the two before handing them off to the police.
But hey I guess that was wrong. It's not a neighborhood's responsibility to look after each other, it's the government's. Especially when said government takes 45 minutes to respond.
CentralCali I can empathize with your position when it comes to most incidents and mobs. I cannot empathize with your position when it comes to that incident.
A Five Year Old Girl. Two Guys. A FIVE YEAR OLD GIRL.
If I couldn't trust my neighbor to be so upset about such a thing as to not just stop the incident but apply retribution to a person who did that, I could not trust them to do many things. If such a crime doesn't fill a person with simultaneous anger and nausea then something is wrong with them in my book.
I would not trust that person to be a parent, I would not trust that person to be a child-watcher, I would not trust that person to be my neighbor.
In order to be a part of society one must be willing to kill to protect each other's kids when it comes to that kind of crime. Laws and police and government be darned. People who put that much faith in the government are the ones who stay silent while their neighbor is taken away in the night. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't respond to trolls. And especially not to lying sack trolls. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Where did I lie?
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| And you're a liar. I did not say stand by and watch. I said stop the criminal from continuing in the crime. I said hold him for the police. |
My 'do nothing' was pointing out that you are an individual, if there are multiple assailants and they are armed, well then calling the police is tantamount to standing by and doing nothing.
Now rousing up the neighborhood and everyone grabbing a baseball bat is not standing by and doing nothing.
If 2 potentially armed men are raping a 5 year old you stop that ASAP and you make sure they are not escaping.
| CentralCali wrote: |
| What would be nice, though, is for you to stop being dishonest and pretending this crud from you is my position on the matter |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Fine have it your way, take the guy in to custody throw him in prison, you know where its really therapeutic and all, let him out again in 4 1/2 trusting that he's learned his lesson. |
You may wish that the guy gets life without parole, that doesn't mean that that is what is going to happen. Your position is irrelevant.
My point was about the realities of the Criminal Justice System. These include plea-bargains, lawyers, and prison-overcrowding.
So where did I lie?
And where was I trolling? What because I believe its okay for the neighborhood to beat and who knows, maybe hang, two guys raping a 5 year old?
But like I said, I guess your version is to stand there, call the police, not get a group of people, because guess what, unlike you, 99% of people out there who hear "Two guys raping a 5 year old" they are going to move, and they are going to hurt and maybe kill, and they don't care if they are a 'mob' or not and they don't care if this is okay with the District Attorney. They care that a child in their neighborhood is having something terrible done to them and two scuzzbuckets need to be caught and maid to pay, ASAP. No waiting 45 minutes or even 2 minutes for the police to show up. Moving then and there. And no they aren't going to say "Oh two guys? Well only two of us should go then."
You said you'd intervene, well if there's two and they are armed, you're probably not going to do to well in the encounter and who knows if someone else will witness it? Okay, so maybe you break it up, are you going to be able to catch two assailants by yourself? Okay so you call the police? Are you sure they're going to get there in time?
While you're watching it go down and waiting for the cops maybe 5 minutes later they take a brick to her head.
Spend the 30 seconds it took the guy in that incident to run to the restaurant and get some backup.
Now you don't have to worry about them being armed because odds are out of those 10 people that join you, one is packing. Or just grab bats or tables or something.
If you're raping a child like that you've broken the compact that constitutes society. You're done. Heck murder amongst thieves at least is done by a code and a society. When a mob forms in that kind of situation its reaffirming society's links, not breaking them. |
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Today, I saw a drunken man (9 pm on Wednesday) lying in a puddle of yellow puke (puke or a mix of puke and something else) at the foot of a crosswalk.
Usually I would consider myself a somewhat helpful person to someone in need but I felt no remorse or desire to help this guy. None at all.
I told my wife about it (who was waiting a restaurant up the street) and she said she saw him too, more than 20 minutes before I did. he'd been lying there for some time. I wonder when the paddywagon or some kind sap helped him out. it could have been a while. |
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toph
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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This isn't just a "Korean" thing...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
Most of us here (if not all) would say that we would help a person in need, but when it comes to it...in the actual situation, things could turn out differently. |
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goingtothecountry
Joined: 15 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| toph wrote: |
This isn't just a "Korean" thing...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
Most of us here (if not all) would say that we would help a person in need, but when it comes to it...in the actual situation, things could turn out differently. |
Exactly. You think this is just Korea? Try reading the NY Times sometimes.
But I have to say I have seen a couple of instances here that really stuck out like a circle forming around a couple of old granddads about to duke it out at a subway station. Reminded me of hs. But Then again, I remember back in the states some young black guy stomping on some old black guy and a crowd forming and not doing anything them either.
Humanity isn't totally dead but it's smoking 5 packs of chinese cigs a day. |
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:41 am Post subject: |
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2 drunks all full of pizz and vinegar is not a situation that needs to be intervened in. If you add a knife to that equation, or one guy goes down and starts getting stomped, now the situation has changed.
Raping a 5 year old boy? I don't even want to imagine it. I would likely try to raise a mob or participate in a mob to stop that. I would not expect the police to forgive vigilantism, but the situation called for it. Police can not be everywhere.
| goingtothecountry wrote: |
| toph wrote: |
This isn't just a "Korean" thing...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
Most of us here (if not all) would say that we would help a person in need, but when it comes to it...in the actual situation, things could turn out differently. |
Exactly. You think this is just Korea? Try reading the NY Times sometimes.
But I have to say I have seen a couple of instances here that really stuck out like a circle forming around a couple of old granddads about to duke it out at a subway station. Reminded me of hs. But Then again, I remember back in the states some young black guy stomping on some old black guy and a crowd forming and not doing anything them either.
Humanity isn't totally dead but it's smoking 5 packs of chinese cigs a day. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| There is such a thing as vigilante mobs in Korea. They leap into action against foreigners pretty quick. Especially if the foreigner is seen trying to help some defenceless person being attacked. |
this happens back home too..
easily gang bang on some asian guys outside a club or in a park for being smart ... ignorance has no boundaries...
what I want to know is..
Did they catch the guys who killed that kid in jamsil?
and did they catch the girls who killed that girl??
ever seen that movie Death Wish? with Charles Bronson
I swear to god I would become him if that was my son or daughter who was beaten to death...
I could never let that go... NEVER!! life in prison is not enough for me..
they must die by my hand!
FOX!!!!!  I think this is how we met a couple years ago hahahahah
you know where I stand on this... |
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
this happens back home too..
easily gang bang on some asian guys outside a club or in a park for being smart ... ignorance has no boundaries... |
In my experience, this happens when minorities pack-attack Caucasians. In Vancouver, Sikhs do it a lot. In Saskatoon, First Nations do it to whites. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| There is such a thing as vigilante mobs in Korea. They leap into action against foreigners pretty quick. Especially if the foreigner is seen trying to help some defenceless person being attacked. |
Really? Do you actually have a consistent pattern to showcase or are you just throwing out stories on Dave's/talking out of one's rear?
I counter your stories with my personal stories- one time a foreigner was drunk and had Korean friends with him and mouthed off to a girl for no reason, the girl's boyfriend, the foreigner's Korean friends, and me (my friend right or wrong) all backed him up over the girl.
Now one time a Korean drunk did get agitated at me. The two K-guys I was with kinda shuffled along and didn't really try to intervene. At the same time the guy clearly couldn't do anything. He thought I was Japanese. After three wild punches to his gut, the third of which I pushed back with my gut that caused him to stumble and he left. When all you do is smile and turn the other slightly flabby ab the guy can give up pretty quick.
You know what a lot of these mob stories have in common? Both parties were drunk, its in a bar type area, a lot of times the leadup/context up to the intervention is missed by the foreigner, and its at 2AM.
Junior, did it ever occur to you that the paranoid 'land of hate' narrative you've managed to construct and adapt about Korea might be just as misplaced as the apologista 'milk & honey' schpiel someone like I throws out there? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
| There is such a thing as vigilante mobs in Korea. They leap into action against foreigners pretty quick. Especially if the foreigner is seen trying to help some defenceless person being attacked. |
Really? Do you actually have a consistent pattern to showcase or are you just throwing out stories on Dave's/talking out of one's rear?
I counter your stories with my personal stories- one time a foreigner was drunk and had Korean friends with him and mouthed off to a girl for no reason, the girl's boyfriend, the foreigner's Korean friends, and me (my friend right or wrong) all backed him up over the girl.
Now one time a Korean drunk did get agitated at me. The two K-guys I was with kinda shuffled along and didn't really try to intervene. At the same time the guy clearly couldn't do anything. He thought I was Japanese. After three wild punches to his gut, the third of which I pushed back with my gut that caused him to stumble and he left. When all you do is smile and turn the other slightly flabby ab the guy can give up pretty quick.
You know what a lot of these mob stories have in common? Both parties were drunk, its in a bar type area, a lot of times the leadup/context up to the intervention is missed by the foreigner, and its at 2AM.
Junior, did it ever occur to you that the paranoid 'land of hate' narrative you've managed to construct and adapt about Korea might be just as misplaced as the apologista 'milk & honey' schpiel someone like I throws out there? |
Indeed. Yes, Korean against foreigner violence happens now and then. But 99% of the time it involves alcohol, testosterone and general stupidity on both sides. Only rarely is it completely unprovoked.
Of the stories on here...only a handful have ever been seriously questioned. In every single case, it was revealed that the foreigner (s) were not nearly as blameless as they originally portrayed themselves to be.
In one case it was revealed to be more or less an outright lie.
In another case it was revealed to contain gross exaggerations and inaccuracies...such as the claim there were a hundred people standing around a foreigner vs Korean fight and chanting "Dae Ha Min Gook!" Only it wasn't a hundred (more like 20) and no such chanting took place. And these were the most mild examples of such exaggerations.
In a third the foreigner was hitting on someone's girl.
There are more examples but these are the ones just off the top of my head.
So Junior, do you have a link to any such incident as you claim above where the foreigner is trying to help some defenseless person and got attacked? Or just some B.S unverifiable story? |
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DosEquisXX
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
| There is such a thing as vigilante mobs in Korea. They leap into action against foreigners pretty quick. Especially if the foreigner is seen trying to help some defenceless person being attacked. |
Really? Do you actually have a consistent pattern to showcase or are you just throwing out stories on Dave's/talking out of one's rear?
I counter your stories with my personal stories- one time a foreigner was drunk and had Korean friends with him and mouthed off to a girl for no reason, the girl's boyfriend, the foreigner's Korean friends, and me (my friend right or wrong) all backed him up over the girl.
Now one time a Korean drunk did get agitated at me. The two K-guys I was with kinda shuffled along and didn't really try to intervene. At the same time the guy clearly couldn't do anything. He thought I was Japanese. After three wild punches to his gut, the third of which I pushed back with my gut that caused him to stumble and he left. When all you do is smile and turn the other slightly flabby ab the guy can give up pretty quick.
You know what a lot of these mob stories have in common? Both parties were drunk, its in a bar type area, a lot of times the leadup/context up to the intervention is missed by the foreigner, and its at 2AM.
Junior, did it ever occur to you that the paranoid 'land of hate' narrative you've managed to construct and adapt about Korea might be just as misplaced as the apologista 'milk & honey' schpiel someone like I throws out there? |
Indeed. Yes, Korean against foreigner violence happens now and then. But 99% of the time it involves alcohol, testosterone and general stupidity on both sides. Only rarely is it completely unprovoked.
Of the stories on here...only a handful have ever been seriously questioned. In every single case, it was revealed that the foreigner (s) were not nearly as blameless as they originally portrayed themselves to be.
In one case it was revealed to be more or less an outright lie.
In another case it was revealed to contain gross exaggerations and inaccuracies...such as the claim there were a hundred people standing around a foreigner vs Korean fight and chanting "Dae Ha Min Gook!" Only it wasn't a hundred (more like 20) and no such chanting took place. And these were the most mild examples of such exaggerations.
In a third the foreigner was hitting on someone's girl.
There are more examples but these are the ones just off the top of my head.
So Junior, do you have a link to any such incident as you claim above where the foreigner is trying to help some defenseless person and got attacked? Or just some B.S unverifiable story? |
I suspect that the kind of thing you guys are talking to almost never happens to Westerners. However, a friend whom I work with at my university, told me that on a couple of different occasions he saw some ajoesshis who were hitting some southeast Asians (probably 3D workers) while on the subway. According to him, the southeast Asians left as soon as they could. |
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