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E-2s for Filipino teachers?
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KHerald



Joined: 21 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:18 pm    Post subject: E-2s for Filipino teachers? Reply with quote

If anyone�s vehemently for or against the prospect of Filipino instructors being granted E-2 visas so they can teach English here (and you'd like to speak with me about it), please send me a PM.

Cheers,

Matt Lamers
Korea Herald
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: E-2s for Filipino teachers? Reply with quote

KHerald wrote:
If anyone�s vehemently for or against the prospect of Filipino instructors being granted E-2 visas so they can teach English here (and you'd like to speak with me about it), please send me a PM.

Cheers,

Matt Lamers
Korea Herald


Neither for nor against (and I am married to a Pinay).

The problem is perception - the average adjuma won't send little Mina to a hakwon with a Pinoy teacher as long as she can find one with "native speaker".

With current world economic problems and high unemployment numbers facing recent college grads there won't be any shortage of "native speakers" in the near future so the chance of them getting hired (even if immigration allows it) will be small at best.

Perhaps the government run programs may seek to hire a few as a cost cutting measure but again... the mothers and parent groups involved in the schools have a strong voice so it won't last long.

Just my humble opinion.

.
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Yaya



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I FIRMLY oppose letting non-native speakers of English get E-2s, including Filipinos, Singaporeans and Hong Kongers. Please spare me the argument that non-native speakers can teach better blah blah blah, it's bad enough that so many Koreans are learning English from Koreans who couldn't speak English to save their lives.
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creeper1



Joined: 30 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:26 pm    Post subject: Not send a reply directly Reply with quote

As I understand it the Koreans wanted to bring over qualified teachers from there along with the Indians. It was the Filipino goverment that blocked the move fearing a "brain drain"

I thought that they were good at English and it was a plentiful and cheap commodity. The fact that they adopt the above policy suggests otherwise however. Wink
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yaya wrote:
I FIRMLY oppose letting non-native speakers of English get E-2s, including Filipinos, Singaporeans and Hong Kongers. Please spare me the argument that non-native speakers can teach better blah blah blah, it's bad enough that so many Koreans are learning English from Koreans who couldn't speak English to save their lives.


I hope you're being sarcastic.
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kprrok



Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Location: KC

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huffdaddy wrote:
Yaya wrote:
I FIRMLY oppose letting non-native speakers of English get E-2s, including Filipinos, Singaporeans and Hong Kongers. Please spare me the argument that non-native speakers can teach better blah blah blah, it's bad enough that so many Koreans are learning English from Koreans who couldn't speak English to save their lives.


I hope you're being sarcastic.


No, I'm pretty sure he's just stupid.

Yaya, you do know that in the Philippines, Singapore, and Hong Kong, English is a national language, right? And I'm pretty sure most citizens can speak it natively, although with a different accent.
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shostahoosier



Joined: 14 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all for it if they open up the ESL market to ANY country that has English as a national language.
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fugitive chicken



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Location: Bucheon

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally don't have a problem with it at all. Many very qualified teachers are being held back from teaching here because they simply aren't from "the right country" and some pretty terrible teachers are being brought over to teach because they are. Korea would do very good to screen the teachers who come in, no matter from what country it is. If they have teaching experience with good recommendations and are good English speakers.

The problem is the parents as ttompatz said. My public school wouldn't hire a well qualified black woman from the US to teach because they were afraid of what the parents would say; and who knows how they would react if someone NOT from the major English speaking countries came in to teach.
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air76



Joined: 13 Nov 2007

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kprrok wrote:
Yaya, you do know that in the Philippines, Singapore, and Hong Kong, English is a national language, right? And I'm pretty sure most citizens can speak it natively, although with a different accent.


Actually that's not true at all....most college educated Filipinos can speak English fluently, but this is not true across the board and the general populace of the Philippines does not speak English well enough to be teaching it. The lower classes may not speak English at all (for all intents and purposes.) English is not a national language, but a great deal of their education is done in English.

While there are a great many Filipinos who speak English perfectly, some speak it better than others, and to say that they are "native" speakers is definitely not accurate. Fluent speakers, yes, but not native.

Now, I am not saying that Filipinos should not be allowed to come to Korea and teach, of course they should. I worked at a camp last winter with Filipino co-teachers and they all were great, but there were definitely a couple of them whose English was "very good" but far from fluent. Even my co-teacher, who was amazing, admitted to me that Filipino English is not the same as native English.

The problem (aside from the K-mom racism) is that they'd need a better system to determine whether or not someone's English was up to snuff or not. Perhaps this is irrelevant as they'd surely require college degrees just as they do of native speakers, and therefore their English "should" be good enough...but at least with native speakers you know that they speak the language at a "native" level, even though a lot of teachers here can't spell worth a <beep>, don't know a gerund from a giraffe, or are just plain idiots.

That being said....I have met Afrikaaner teachers whose English is really not good enough to be teaching at say, a university...most Afrikaaners speak perfect English, but there are definitely some that don't and when you speak to them it is clearly obvious that English is their 2nd language. Again, not to say you can't teach a language that is your 2nd language, just pointing out that there is no guarantee under the current system that all teachers are native speakers either.
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kbit



Joined: 18 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shostahoosier wrote:
I'm all for it if they open up the ESL market to ANY country that has English as a national language.

you know English isn't the official language of the United States?
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbit wrote:
shostahoosier wrote:
I'm all for it if they open up the ESL market to ANY country that has English as a national language.

you know English isn't the official language of the United States?


It's the de facto national language.
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mayorgc



Joined: 19 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The end goal of most English programs in Korea/Japan (I'm assuming) is to do business/interact with the Western world (That was basically Jet's mission statement I think).

They ideally wanted to learn from native speakers because they wanted to do business with native speaker countries.

Singapore/India/Hong Kong/Philippines aren't in the west. The main reason hagwon owners would want those teachers is because they'd probably be cheaper. Teachers from those countries wouldn't automatically be poor teachers, but they probably wouldn't be able to speak like a "Native Speaker".
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mayorgc wrote:
The end goal of most English programs in Korea/Japan (I'm assuming) is to do business/interact with the Western world (That was basically Jet's mission statement I think).

They ideally wanted to learn from native speakers because they wanted to do business with native speaker countries.


Most of Japan's trading partners are non-Western countries.

http://internationaltrade.suite101.com/article.cfm/japan_s_trade_buddies

Same with Korea

http://import-export.suite101.com/article.cfm/international-trade-and-growth-in-south-koreas-economy
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kprrok wrote:

Yaya, you do know that in the Philippines, Singapore, and Hong Kong, English is a national language, right? And I'm pretty sure most citizens can speak it natively, although with a different accent.


English may be an official language BUT MOST cannot speak it like a native speaker or even at all.

One of the biggest complaints in/about the Philippine DEPED is the LACK of English education

AND

unless a student has completed high school and college (a small percentage of the population)

OR come from a wealthy background and private schools they won't likely speak English any better than your average Korean elementary school student.

The odds of finding someone who can speak English gets even worse as you move out into the provinces.

THE EXCEPTIONS (non-university educated and English speaking) would be those who had worked abroad or as Seamen /crew on foreign flagged ships.

.
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Ruthdes



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Filapinos were able to get an E2 visa, they would presumably be subject to the same restrictions that apply to the rest of us, i.e. doing all schooling, including a bachelors degree, in English. If they have done this, the chances are that they speak English as well as most people from the main English speaking countries. There might be some regional differences in vocabulary, or common structures used, but you find this between those of us here already.
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