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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: Man with neo-Nazi ties leading patrols in Arizona |
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PHOENIX - Minutemen groups, a surge in Border Patrol agents, and a tough new immigration law aren't enough for a reputed neo-Nazi who's now leading a militia in the Arizona desert.
Jason "J.T." Ready is taking matters into his own hands, declaring war on "narco-terrorists" and keeping an eye out for illegal immigrants. So far, he says his patrols have only found a few border crossers who were given water and handed over to the Border Patrol. Once, they also found a decaying body in a wash, and alerted authorities.
But local law enforcement authorities are nervous given that Ready's group is heavily armed and identifies with the National Socialist Movement, an organization that believes only non-Jewish, white heterosexuals should be American citizens and that everyone who isn't white should leave the country "peacefully or by force."
"We're not going to sit around and wait for the government anymore," Ready said. "This is what our founding fathers did."
An escalation of civilian border watches have taken root in Arizona in recent years, including the Minutemen movement. Various groups patrol the desert on foot, horseback and in airplanes and report suspicious activity to the Border Patrol, and generally, they have not caused problems for law enforcement.
But Ready, a 37-year-old ex-Marine, is different. He and his friends are outfitted with military fatigues, body armour and gas masks, and carry assault rifles. Ready takes offence at the term "neo-Nazi," but admits he identifies with the National Socialist Movement.
"These are explicit Nazis," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project. "These are people who wear swastikas on their sleeves."
Ready is a reflection of the anger over illegal immigration in Arizona. Gov. Jan Brewer signed a controversial new immigration law in April, which requires police, while enforcing other laws, to question a person's immigration status if officers have a reasonable suspicion that the person is in the country illegally.
But Brewer hasn't done enough, Ready said, and he's not satisfied with President Barack Obama's decision to beef up security at the border.
Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu said there haven't been any incidents with Ready's group as they patrol his jurisdiction, which includes several busy immigrant smuggling corridors. But Babeu is concerned because an untrained group acting without the authority of the law could cause "extreme problems," and put themselves and others in danger.
"I'm not inviting them. And in fact, I'd rather they not come," Babeu said. "Especially those who espouse hatred or bigotry such as his."
Law enforcement officials said patrols like Ready's could undercut the work of the thousands of officers on duty every day across the border, especially if they try to enforce the law themselves in carrying out vigilante justice.
Ready said his group has been patrolling in the desert about 50 miles (80 kilometres) south of Phoenix, in an area where a Pinal County Sheriff's deputy reported he was shot by drug smugglers in April.
Bureau of Land Management rangers met Ready's group during one patrol, and they weren't violating any laws or looking for a confrontation, said spokesman Dennis Godfrey.
The patrols have been occurring on public land, and militia members have no real restrictions on their weaponry because of Arizona's loose gun laws.
The militia is an outgrowth of border watch groups that have been part of the immigration debate in Arizona. Patrols in the Arizona desert by Minutemen organizations brought national attention to illegal immigration in 2004 and 2005.
Such groups continue to operate in Arizona, and law enforcement officials generally don't take issue with them as long as they don't take matters into their own hands.
Border Patrol spokesman Omar Candelaria said the agency appreciates the extra eyes and ears but they would prefer actual law enforcement be left to professionals.
Former Minutemen leader Al Garza recently created the Patriot's Coalition, which uses scouts and search-and-rescue teams to alert the Border Patrol and provide first aid to illegal immigrants.
Depending on the availability of volunteers and the scouts' evidence of border crossers, patrols can vary from several times a week to once a month, Garza said. The operation is about 500 people, and includes a neighbourhood watch program, legislative advisers and a horseback patrol, he said.
Technology, rather than manpower, is the focus of Glenn Spencer's American Border Patrol. The group is based at his ranch near the border. The five-man operation flies three small airplanes to ensure that his American Border Patrol is present and visible along the international line.
Spencer also uses Internet-controlled cameras and works with a group called Border Invasion Pics, which posts photos of people they suspect are crossing illegally.
"Sitting out there with a bunch of volunteers looking for people is generally a tremendous waste of people and time," Spencer said. "And it's also dangerous."
Ready said he's planning patrols throughout the summer.
"If they don't want my people out there, then there's an easy way to send us home: Secure the border," he said. "We'll put our guns back on the shelf, and that'll be the end of that."
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This cannot turn out well. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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I can't say I consider the fact that they consider themselves National Socialists in-and-of itself to be a problem. If they accidentally arrest someone who is innocent -- or harm someone under any circumstances other than self-defense -- they'll be fully liable under the law. Until then, they're acting validly under Arizona law as far as I understand it; citizens in most states can enact citizen's arrests, after all, often even for misdemeanors.
They're a lot less likely to cause harm than actual police officers are, given their lack of legal protections. As such, it's hard to get too upset about. |
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GwangjuParents
Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| What about Catholics? Are they to be kicked out, too? |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
I can't say I consider the fact that they consider themselves National Socialists in-and-of itself to be a problem. If they accidentally arrest someone who is innocent -- or harm someone under any circumstances other than self-defense -- they'll be fully liable under the law. Until then, they're acting validly under Arizona law as far as I understand it; citizens in most states can enact citizen's arrests, after all, often even for misdemeanors.
They're a lot less likely to cause harm than actual police officers are, given their lack of legal protections. As such, it's hard to get too upset about. |
+1
It's the small percentage of police officers who join the force and hold these political views that you should be worried about. I have no doubt that if any of these guys acted inappropriately under Arizona law there would be a ton of bricks coming down on them in a hurry. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| The fact that they are armed could cause some worry, but really these people don't have to worry as much about the cops as they do the drug smugglers. Especially given the fact that MS-13 has said that it will target them. I think that they haven't been killed in large numbers shows that they aren't hindering the drug smugglers, but rather just ordinary people wanting a better life, disgusting if you ask me. |
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Steve_Rogers2008
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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neo-nazis vs Mexican drug lords... this could be billed as THE DESERT STORM OF THE WEST!!! 
Hidden cameras in the cacti, drone planes flying high for the play-by-play.... i see ratings gold in them thar hills!  |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Arizona Sheriff Entrance Exam:
A man in Texas looking to join the Frio County Sheriffs Dept. was being interviewed.
The Sergeant doing the interview says, "Your qualifications look good, but there's an attitude suitability test you must pass before you can be accepted."
Then, sliding a Smith and Wesson 45 pistol across the desk, he says to the man, "Take this pistol; go out and shoot six illegal aliens, six meth dealers, six Muslim extremists, six 'Progressive Liberal' democrats, and a rabbit."
"Why the rabbit?" the man asked.
"That's the attitude we're looking for!" said the Sergeant, "When can you start? |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Frenetic wrote: |
Arizona Sheriff Entrance Exam:
A man in Texas looking to join the Frio County Sheriffs Dept. was being interviewed.
The Sergeant doing the interview says, "Your qualifications look good, but there's an attitude suitability test you must pass before you can be accepted."
Then, sliding a Smith and Wesson 45 pistol across the desk, he says to the man, "Take this pistol; go out and shoot six illegal aliens, six meth dealers, six Muslim extremists, six 'Progressive Liberal' democrats, and a rabbit."
"Why the rabbit?" the man asked.
"That's the attitude we're looking for!" said the Sergeant, "When can you start? |
LOL funny. I would have asked the same question! |
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cisco kid
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Outlaws had us pinned down at the fort
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor.
If you cross the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.
If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot.
If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally you will be jailed.
If you cross the Chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.
If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.
If you cross the Mexican border illegally you will be jailed for two years.
If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.
If you cross the United States border illegally you get:
1 - A job
2 - A driver's license
3 - A Social Security card
4 - Welfare
5 - Food stamps
6 - Credit cards
7 - Subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house
8 - Free education
9 - Free health care
10 - A lobbyist in Washington
11 - Billions of dollars in public documents printed in your language |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:05 am Post subject: |
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"Illegal immigration has both negative and positive impacts on different parts of the economy. As noted above, wages for low-skilled workers go down. But that means the rest of America benefits by paying lower prices for things like restaurant meals, agricultural produce and construction. Another negative impact is on government expenditures. Since undocumented workers generally don't pay income taxes but do use schools and other government services, they are seen as a drain on government spending.
There are places in the United States where illegal immigration has big effects (both positive and negative). But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5312900
I fail to see why people are so ardently against illegal immigrants. It provides an overall net gain, and lots of tasty Mexican food. The drugs and gangs will get in no matter what, they have the money and power to find ways to do it, and the biggest market for their products is in the States. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| This man Ready has been pinned with a label he explicity rejects, and the label has been used to suggest (probably to liberals living in big cities who like having their prejudices about "fly-over country" confirmed) that he's an irrational bigot out for blood. But the facts in the article show that he isn't breaking any laws, isn't hurting any Mexicans, and has been respectful to the police. |
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thecount
Joined: 10 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
I fail to see why people are so ardently against illegal immigrants. It provides an overall net gain |
TO WHOM?
Understand that net gains are distributed across a bigger pie, when you add millions of new people.
And also understand that the distribution is NOT equitable in nature, as many of the new additions to the pie contribute nothing.
So while THEY may experience a positive net gain, those who pay more in taxes to take care of them, while receiving less in tangible benefits themselves, are experiencing a net reduction. It is THOSE people that we should be prioritizing care of. Not those whose very presence here is in itself a violation of our current federal code. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
"Illegal immigration has both negative and positive impacts on different parts of the economy. As noted above, wages for low-skilled workers go down. But that means the rest of America benefits by paying lower prices for things like restaurant meals, agricultural produce and construction. Another negative impact is on government expenditures. Since undocumented workers generally don't pay income taxes but do use schools and other government services, they are seen as a drain on government spending.
There are places in the United States where illegal immigration has big effects (both positive and negative). But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5312900
I fail to see why people are so ardently against illegal immigrants. It provides an overall net gain, and lots of tasty Mexican food. The drugs and gangs will get in no matter what, they have the money and power to find ways to do it, and the biggest market for their products is in the States. |
Yes, I agree. Also, they pay taxes, yet never collect social security.
The average American, or don't you believe the Harvard prof? |
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thecount
Joined: 10 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:50 am Post subject: |
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The average American, or don't you believe the Harvard prof? |
You can't get much farther from the average American fiscally, politically or religiously than a Harvard Prof.
(All of that can be proven, as well).
What would he know about the average American?
I just got back from Newton, MA last week. It's virtually on top of Harvard. Harvard is one of the most ideologically isolated locations in America. These are the people who just built a $200 million high school (less than 2,000 students). Newton had consultants from the very same Harvard making decisions for that school.
Nearby, there is an elementary school that is filled with dividers. The same Harvard had educational consultants for THAT school, too - they demanded that it be built without walls dividing the classrooms.
In the center of town, there is a giant cement pit covered with weeds. It used to be a pool, demanded by the (Harvard) city planner at the time. Unfortunately, there was not enough revenue to pay the lifeguard, afford the insurance, or even maintenance fees...so they had to close it.
You see, all the money had to go to fixing the school without walls.
These guys are living in their own little world most of the time. Bring Harvard to Arizona and stick 'em in Pheonix for their studies. Then see what they say about immigration. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| thecount wrote: |
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The average American, or don't you believe the Harvard prof? |
You can't get much farther from the average American fiscally, politically or religiously than a Harvard Prof.
(All of that can be proven, as well).
What would he know about the average American?
I just got back from Newton, MA last week. It's virtually on top of Harvard. Harvard is one of the most ideologically isolated locations in America. These are the people who just built a $200 million high school (less than 2,000 students). Newton had consultants from the very same Harvard making decisions for that school.
Nearby, there is an elementary school that is filled with dividers. The same Harvard had educational consultants for THAT school, too - they demanded that it be built without walls dividing the classrooms.
In the center of town, there is a giant cement pit covered with weeds. It used to be a pool, demanded by the (Harvard) city planner at the time. Unfortunately, there was not enough revenue to pay the lifeguard, afford the insurance, or even maintenance fees...so they had to close it.
You see, all the money had to go to fixing the school without walls.
These guys are living in their own little world most of the time. Bring Harvard to Arizona and stick 'em in Pheonix for their studies. Then see what they say about immigration. |
Eh yeah, anyway....
There have been numerous studies that illustrate the net gain of illegal immigrants. Bacasper mentioned an important one (pay into S.Security but don't take out). |
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