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Foreigner crime in Korea has trippled.
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:51 am Post subject:

Junior wrote:

Just to qualify the statistics.

The article states that number of foreigners apprehended by Korean police for murder, robbery, rape, assault and other violence in 2009 was 23,344.

Tourists come under the category of foreigners. 2009 saw more than 7 million tourists visit Korea- more than ever before.
http://www.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/FU/FU_EN_15.jsp?cid=875823

On Jan. 1st 2010 (ie figures for 2009) There were 1,139,283 foreign residents in Korea.I assume this includes E2 visas under immigrant workers.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90851/7022640.html

Added together we have 8,139,283 foreigners in Korea in 2009. Of them, 23,344 were arrested for crimes.

Thus the overall foreigner crime rate in 2009 was 0.2%.

Looking at the Korean police website, no statistics are given for 2009. However the number of Koreans arrested for the same crimes as foreigners in 2007 was 385,704.
http://www.police.go.kr/eng/index.jsp
In 2007 Korea's total population was 49,044,790.
http://www.historycentral.com/nationbynation/Korea/Population.html
The foreigner population in 2007 was 1,000,254.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2007/08/117_8926.html
Minus the foreigners and that leaves you with an ethnic Korean population in 2007 of 48,044,536.

So in 2007, the crime rate for Koreans was 0.8%.

..assuming that rate held steady in 2009, we arrive at the unavoidable conclusions that in Korea...

Koreans commit four times as much crime as foreigners.

Let's face it, the media in cahoots with Korean police wants to demonize Westerners. It helps deflect attention from other problems, I am sure, and prays on old fears of outsiders.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Foreigner crime in Korea has trippled.

huffdaddy wrote:

comm wrote:

huffdaddy wrote:

But you should be held accountable for disobeying a country's rules while you're not even in that country? Testing positive for cannabis semi-legally consumed in another country is a crime in Korea.

You cant have a detectable amount of an illegal drug (as defined by Korea) in your bloodstream when you enter the country. Sounds pretty cut and dried to me.

Being penalized for what's in your blood? Doesn't make sense. What next, prison for thinking the wrong things?

Quote:

Plus, if the applicant is applying from one of the official native English countries, that drug is also illegal in the applicant's country. That does mean they've broken laws...

Not necessarily.

For starters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_that_have_decriminalized_non-medical_cannabis_in_the_United_States

But since when was it up to Korea to enforce other countries' laws?

I think that cannabis prohibition is retarded, but thems the laws. At the same time I understand why people support such laws. It's not just ignorance or prejudice. We knew the deal when we came here. Whether or not cannabis use is decriminalized is irrelevant. An employer is still free to administer drug screening in a decriminalized state as well so Korea isn't doing anything that Big Mac Trucking in a decriminalized state isn't doing.

Quote:

Let's face it, the media in cahoots with Korean police wants to demonize Westerners. It helps deflect attention from other problems

If we truly were being demonized it wouldn't be anything like things are now. Korea just wants to keep the riff-raff out, albeit in a totally arbitrary fashion.

That and somehow I don't think this story is nearly as big in Korean circles as it is in NET circles. If you ask the average Korean about Drug Laws and English teachers I don't think they'd know the ins and outs nearly as much as us or even think its an issue. The average Korean assumes they are there just to keep out bad apples.

Do you really believe that your employer/co-workers see you as a drug-addled pedophile?

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:34 am Post subject:

Adventurer wrote:

Let's face it, the media in cahoots with Korean police wants to demonize Westerners. It helps deflect attention from other problems, I am sure, and prays on old fears of outsiders.

Thing is...from what I've seen...foreigners generally just do not commit crime in Korea.
The average foreign teacher wouldn't risk threatening their vulnerable position at their school. Foreigners can't even set the dial on their washing machine, let alone figure out how to rob a bank. Living in a foreign culture has an inhibiting effect on most of us. We just don't take the liberties we would if we were at home in a familiar culture.

CentralCali

Joined: 17 May 2007

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:10 am Post subject:

Remember the old adage about lies? "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." Well, it depends on how you present the stats here. One way, just going by the number of crimes reported with no other context numbers, then, yes, crimes by foreigners has tripled. But, if you decide to show the ratio of crimes per 1,000 foreigners or even crimes per 1,000 foreigners compared to crimes per 1,000 Koreans, well, that's a whole different story.

bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:01 am Post subject:

Junior wrote:

Thus the overall foreigner crime rate in 2009 was 0.2%.
...

Koreans commit four times as much crime as foreigners.

The conclusion is obvious: Koreans ought not be allowed in Korea.
Mr. Green

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject:

CentralCali wrote:

Remember the old adage about lies? "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." Well, it depends on how you present the stats here.

Precisely. The Korea Times writer did not hang around to get the statistics that would have qualified her report. More to the point..the Korean authorities wouldn't release them.

They don't spell out that the figures relate only to teachers or if they include tourists. But even if you exclude tourists from your calculations, Koreans still commit more crime!

So instead of actually justifying vague murmurs and headlines of a foreign crime spree, they just put out misleading information and withhold the actual facts.

I'd be willing to bet that those on E2 visas have the lowest crime rate of any group in the entire country.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:14 pm Post subject:

Junior wrote:

So you compare one year of foreign crimes with one year of Korean crimes and those are "unavoidable conclusions"?

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

Adventurer wrote:

Let's face it, the media in cahoots with Korean police wants to demonize Westerners. It helps deflect attention from other problems, I am sure, and prays on old fears of outsiders.

I don't think most foreigners who commit crimes are English teachers...we are a very small percentage of the foreign population anyway. The most serious foreign crimes are likely those committed by the foreign gangs (Russian, Chinese....) operating here.

Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

Adventurer wrote:

Let's face it, the media in cahoots with Korean police wants to demonize Westerners. It helps deflect attention from other problems, I am sure, and prays on old fears of outsiders.

To be frank, I've known of one person I would say there was a high chance she was involved with drugs at one point. However, she was the only one of all my acquaintances that I would have suspected. And I am not saying she was. That's more of what a lot of people from some parts of Africa and Southeast Asia. Yes, there are Western from Europe and North America involved, but they are a fraction of the foreigners involved in that stuff. We have stupid teachers caught with marijuana. Still, as you said, the vast, vast majority don't do that. Why doesn't the media bother reporting thing. I mean it would be one thing if we were 20% of the prison population. In the US people can't help comment that half of prisoners are African American. People from Western countries are probably not even 5% of the prison population let alone 3%. It's just this general hatred of foreigners.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject:

I bet this whole "Foreigner crime wave" story is an excuse to sell a bunch of something or make money for someone somewhere. We're probably seeing a run up to ADT or some security firm getting money to do a bunch of foreigner related matters. Either that or the Immigration/Justice Ministry getting more money to deal with "foreigner crime" that can be spent on hookers, booze, food, and new furniture and TVs for the office.

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:02 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

So you compare one year of foreign crimes with one year of Korean crimes and those are "unavoidable conclusions"?

You think the Korean crime rate has dramatically changed in 2 years?

OK, have it your way, Compare the foreign crime rate in 2007 (resident foreigners only) against the Korean crime rate for 2007.

You'll still find Koreans commit double the amount of crime.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:22 pm Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

So you compare one year of foreign crimes with one year of Korean crimes and those are "unavoidable conclusions"?

You'll also find that the Korean population is far more than double the resident foreigner rate.

Or more than four times should it come to that.

oskinny1

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

nautilus wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

So you compare one year of foreign crimes with one year of Korean crimes and those are "unavoidable conclusions"?

You'll also find that the Korean population is far more than double the resident foreigner rate.

Or more than four times should it come to that.

Do you have a clue what you are saying? He is comparing crime rate, not the number of crimes in total.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:16 pm Post subject:

oskinny1 wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

nautilus wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

So you compare one year of foreign crimes with one year of Korean crimes and those are "unavoidable conclusions"?

You'll also find that the Korean population is far more than double the resident foreigner rate.

Or more than four times should it come to that.

Do you have a clue what you are saying? He is comparing crime rate, not the number of crimes in total.

I know what he is comparing. I am pointing out that one can make any case for any agenda simply by manipulating the statistics and/or extrapolating from a very narrow band.

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:35 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

I know what he is comparing. I am pointing out that one can make any case for any agenda simply by manipulating the statistics and/or extrapolating from a very narrow band.

How have I "manipulated the statistics" exactly?

The numbers don't lie. Koreans commit more crime per capita.. than foreigners resident in Korea.

* Seems to me the Koreans gripe is that foreigners commit crime at all in Korea. ie unrealistic expectations.

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