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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:14 am Post subject: |
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All that floating plastic is presumably providing a new habitat for plankton, which traditionally requires the underside of sea-ice for its development.
Given that said sea ice is vanishing at an alarming rate, the floating garbage might inadvertantly delay the complete breakdown of the oceans ecosystems. Just a theory. |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Julius wrote: |
All that floating plastic is presumably providing a new habitat for plankton, which traditionally requires the underside of sea-ice for its development.
Given that said sea ice is vanishing at an alarming rate, the floating garbage might inadvertantly delay the complete breakdown of the oceans ecosystems. Just a theory. |
All plankton? Or just some? Source please.
Even if true, given that this plastic is also poisoning what it's feeding this is a small silver lining at best.
Even plastic eating bacteria would be a mixed blessing. The chaos that this would unleash in our cities. I would still be very happy to see it though. |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:56 am Post subject: |
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And here we go...
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/05/teen-decomposes/
I'd like a bit more information on this than a science fair winner though. A search of the primary literature didn't bring up anything obvious, but I may easily have missed it.
If one bred bacteria that fed on plastic, and nothing but, and could tolerate salt water, and then released them into the ocean, we'd see this whole thing go away. It would make using plastic in our cities problematic though. Need to keep plastics dry and clean. |
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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
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OneWayTraffic wrote: |
All plankton? Or just some? Source please. |
..that was just my hunch.
The only solution facing us at the moment is to adopt biodegradable plastic forthwith, and wait a 1000 years for whats already in there to degrade.
Of course this is just one ticking timebomb- another is the mass release of greenhouse gasses by thawing permafrost. |
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TheFonz

Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Location: North Georgia
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if this could lead to a global red tide. Pollution is the main cause of red tide so it doesn't seem unlikely. |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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It may NOT be the largest.
Pacific Ocean garbage patch worries researchers
By MICHELLE RINDELS, Associated Press Writer Michelle Rindels, Associated Press Writer � 2 hrs 43 mins ago
LOS ANGELES � A tawny stuffed puppy bobs in cold sea water, his four stiff legs tangled in the green net of some nameless fisherman.
It's one of the bigger pieces of trash in a sprawling mass of garbage-littered water, known as the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, where most of the plastic looks like snowy confetti against the deep blue of the north Pacific Ocean.
Most of the trash has broken into bite-sized plastic bits, and scientists want to know whether it's sickening or killing the small fish, plankton and birds that ingest it.
During their August fact-finding expedition, a group of University of California scientists found much more debris than they expected. The team announced their observations at a San Diego press conference Thursday.
"It's pretty shocking � it's unusual to find exactly what you're looking for," said Miriam Goldstein, who led fellow researchers from the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego on the three-week voyage.
While scientists have documented trash's harmful effects for coastal marine life, there's little research on garbage patches, which were first explored extensively by self-trained ocean researcher Charles Moore just a decade ago. There's also scant research on the marine life at the bottom of the food chain that inhabit the patch.
But even the weather-beaten, sunbleached plastic flakes that are smaller than a thumbnail can be alarming.
"They're the right size to be interacting with the food chain out there," Goldstein said.
The team also netted occasional water bottles with barnacles clinging to the side. Some of the trash had labels written in Chinese and English, hints of the long journeys garbage takes to arrive mid-ocean.
Plastic sea trash doesn't biodegrade and often floats at the surface. Bottlecaps, bags and wrappers that end up in the ocean from the wind or through overflowing sewage systems can then drift thousands of miles.
The sheer quantity of plastic that accumulates in the North Pacific Gyre, a vortex formed by ocean and wind currents and located 1,000 miles off the California coast, has the scientists worried about how it might harm the sea creatures there.
A study released earlier this month estimated that thousands of tons of plastic debris wind up in the oceans every year, and some of that has ended up in the swirling currents of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.
Katsuhiko Saido, a chemist at Nihon University, Chiba, Japan, told the annual meeting of the American Chemical Society last week that plastic actually does decompose, releasing potentially toxic chemicals that can disrupt the functioning of hormones in animals and marine life.
The Scripps team hopes the samples they gathered during the trip nail down answers to questions of the trash's environmental impact. Does eating plastic poison plankton? Is the ecosystem in trouble when new sea creatures hitchhike on the side of a water bottle?
Plastics have entangled birds and turned up in the bellies of fish, and one paper cited by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration estimates 100,000 marine mammals die trash-related deaths each year.
The scientists hope their data gives clues as to the density and extent of marine debris, especially since the Great Pacific Garbage Patch may have company in the Southern Hemisphere, where scientists say the gyre is four times bigger.
"We're afraid at what we're going to find in the South Gyre, but we've got to go there," said Tony Haymet, director of the Scripps Institution.
Only humans are to blame for ocean debris, Goldstein said. In a blog entry posted a day before the science ship arrived in Newport, Ore., she wrote the research showed her the consequences of humanity's footprint on nature.
"Seeing that influence just floating out here in the middle of nowhere makes our power painfully obvious, and the consequences of the industrial age plain," she wrote. "It's not a pretty sight." |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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At least this mayor is doing something.
Portland Mayor Proposes Plastic Bag Ban
Posted: 2010/07/19
From: Mathaba
(mathaba) Portland, Mayor Sam Adams this week presented the city with a draft ordinance to ban single use plastic bags in the U.S. city. His office says that according to a recent poll, 2 out of 3 Portlander�s support a ban.
The Mayor released a statement to the public on Friday afternoon, July 16th:
When the city of Portland banned polystyrene foam (Styrofoam) in January 1990, it drew immediate attention from the environmental community and the business world. In response, businesses and customers had to learn a new behavior and they did, adapting to the new policy as cities around the nation took notice.
According to a poll conducted last week, two-thirds of Portlanders surveyed support banning single-use, carry-out plastic bags and a 5-cent charge on paper bags.
Today, I�m introducing for public comment a draft ordinance to ban single-use plastic bags in the City of Portland. The ordinance, along with a Frequently Asked Questions document, can be found online at www.mayorsamadams.com/bagban. The ordinance spells out all the important details � which industries are included, when it will go into effect, and what we�re doing to make sure the transition is smooth and successful.
The four key pillars of the ordinance are:
1. Banning plastic bags, prohibiting large grocery stores and retail pharmacies from distributing single-use plastic carryout bags to their customers at point of sale;
2. Setting a mandatory 5-cent charge on paper/compostable plastic bags, regulating the distribution of paper bags and compostable plastic bags to encourage consumers to use reusable bags, and helping defray the cost to stores;
3. Requiring stores to make reusable bags available, either for purchase or at no cost;
4. Calling for an outreach campaign that includes a public-private partnership to provide reusable carryout bags to interested Portland residents; and working with service providers to distribute information and reusable carryout bags to interested senior and low-income households.
The policy is a smart, pragmatic approach to a real and seemingly insurmountable problem. It�s an approach shaped by a coalition of businesses, environmental groups and city staff and informed by lessons from cities and nations that have already taken action. Efforts are underway to ban plastic bags statewide in the next legislative session. I support those efforts. Portlanders are prepared to lead the way to a statewide solution.
cont'd at link |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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There is a simple solution. Privatize the ocean.
Unwanted litter is impossible on private property.
It simply doesn't happen. It will have a myriad of knock on effects, including saving depleted fish stocks, and ending oil spills forever. |
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nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Senior wrote: |
There is a simple solution. Privatize the ocean. |
I thought your view was that protecting the environment was for "wierdos who hate humans".
Where does your recommendation to breed like flies and churn out more pollution stand now? |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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nautilus wrote: |
Senior wrote: |
There is a simple solution. Privatize the ocean. |
I thought your view was that protecting the environment was for "wierdos who hate humans".
Where does your recommendation to breed like flies and churn out more pollution stand now? |
That was what you chose to read into the thing I wrote. Once you had drawn your conclusions, it was impossible to dissuade you otherwise. |
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blackjack

Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: anyang
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Senior wrote: |
There is a simple solution. Privatize the ocean.
Unwanted litter is impossible on private property.
It simply doesn't happen. It will have a myriad of knock on effects, including saving depleted fish stocks, and ending oil spills forever. |
yes because i have never had rubbish dumped on my property back in NZ. Littering private property is impossible  |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:13 am Post subject: |
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blackjack wrote: |
Senior wrote: |
There is a simple solution. Privatize the ocean.
Unwanted litter is impossible on private property.
It simply doesn't happen. It will have a myriad of knock on effects, including saving depleted fish stocks, and ending oil spills forever. |
yes because i have never had rubbish dumped on my property back in NZ. Littering private property is impossible  |
Was it the same person persistently dumping until you had a swirling vortex of trash?
The same thing happened to us. It was generally the neighbors, and my father told them to stop or he was calling the police. And they stopped.
You should see the DOC land a K up the road. Old tires, junked cars, general trash. And it never gets cleaned up. That NEVER happens on land that someone owns. Unless they allow it to happen. |
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brickabrack
Joined: 17 May 2010
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:29 am Post subject: |
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You really have to ask yourself, "how much do I give a flying fact about the things that I do on a daily basis that contribute to this mess?".
Isn't that what's really going on?
Do you have to wrestle merchants to NOT give you a plastic bag?
Do you think twice about buying something that continues to proliferate the consumption of plastic products?
On a semi-related note:
http://www.alternet.org/water/147295/sorry%2C_ritz-carlton%2C_plant_based_bottles_for_water_are_not_green?page=entire
I'm certainly not advocating bio-plastics.
Who really wants to give up their conveniences for the mere security of the oceanic livelihood?
Reduce/Re-use, recycle as a last resort. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Senior wrote: |
There is a simple solution. Privatize the ocean.
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Who would buy it?
Quote: |
Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take this power away from them, and all the great fortunes disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money and control credit. |
Sir Josiah Stamp, Director of The Bank of England in the 1920's.
We shouldn't be naive about markets (I admit to having been naive). It is a gamed system.
...
Surely, we have the technology to clean the trash up. It is true, as Senior suggested, that incentives are not such that action is demanded. That's a hurdle and not a barrier. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: |
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mises wrote: |
Senior wrote: |
There is a simple solution. Privatize the ocean.
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Who would buy it? |
Maybe no one. Who owns the desert and other fallow land?
Prime fishing grounds would be snapped up in an instant. As would those that have mineral deposits under them. As would tourism operators. Wasn't there a (potential?) spill on the Great Barrier Reef a month or so ago?
Quote: |
Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take this power away from them, and all the great fortunes disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money and control credit. |
Sir Josiah Stamp, Director of The Bank of England in the 1920's.
We shouldn't be naive about markets (I admit to having been naive). It is a gamed system.[/quote]
But your quote doesn't describe a free market. That a free market exists, is basically what all of my prognostications rest upon. I couldn't agree more that we should abolish reserve banking and fiat money. |
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