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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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farzfive
Joined: 11 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:54 am Post subject: Explain to me why I need a pension in Korea |
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Is it really necessary for me to have a pension when I am out there. I only plan on teaching there for 1-2 years.
Last edited by farzfive on Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wesharris
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Yes. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| Yes! |
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DeLaRed
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Where are you from? Certain countries don`t have agreements with the Korean government so you wont be able to claim you`re pension money back once leaving at the end of your contract even if you`re paying your contribution into it.
Last edited by DeLaRed on Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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farzfive
Joined: 11 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| So correct me if im wrong, but with pension, i pay half, the job pays half, and when i leave, i collect all of it? |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| farzfive wrote: |
| So correct me if im wrong, but with pension, i pay half, the job pays half, and when i leave, i collect all of it? |
yes. |
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OculisOrbis
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Depends where youre from regarding the lump sum refund when you leave, but in most cases (all cases, really, but its just that they dont enforce the fact that e-2 visa teachers cannot be independent contractors) you are legally required to be enrolled and submit to the national pension and health insurance programs. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| OculisOrbis wrote: |
| Depends where youre from regarding the lump sum refund when you leave, but in most cases (all cases, really, but its just that they dont enforce the fact that e-2 visa teachers cannot be independent contractors) you are legally required to be enrolled and submit to the national pension and health insurance programs. |
This is just stubborn stupidity on your part.
The Immigration office cannot determine the rules for tax or pension. Independent contractor rules are separate.
There is no law or court ruling that makes it illegal for E2 visa holders to be an independent contractor.
If you sign a contract that does not contain pension or health insurance, and does not say directly that you are an "employee" and especially if you have hints such as a flat tax rate of 3.3% or 3.5% or more, then you have probably signed a contract to be a legal independent contractor. If you want to get pension and health insurance, and most teachers who come to Korea will be better off if they do, you should never sign such a contract.
Pension and health insurance and an appropriate tax rate according to the NTS site, explicitly spelled out in the contract, and words or clauses that explicitly state that you are an employee are minimum requirements for an acceptable contract. If these things are not present you should pass.
(Of course, there are teachers from certain countries or with certain personal situations that determine that they can make a better deal as a part time, hourly or temporary worker or independent contractor and come out ahead. Fine. Dance with the devil if you dare.)
Teachers should not listen to the foolish advice of those who deny the existence of the legal independent contractor status. This causes all kinds of harm to teachers, and newbies especially, who think it doesn't matter that those things are in the contract, because they are legally required for all. These teachers then go on to get screwed. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:47 am Post subject: |
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You wouldn't be complaining if you were American (or Australian?). I just see it as a potential future wind fall, if Korea and my home country ever sign a reciprocity agreement.
Besides, what is it? 80K a month? I would be paying more than that a month towards dead beats sitting on their asses, back home. |
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T-dot
Joined: 16 May 2004
Location: bundang
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| Did some say YES yet? |
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OculisOrbis
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| OculisOrbis wrote: |
| Depends where youre from regarding the lump sum refund when you leave, but in most cases (all cases, really, but its just that they dont enforce the fact that e-2 visa teachers cannot be independent contractors) you are legally required to be enrolled and submit to the national pension and health insurance programs. |
This is just stubborn stupidity on your part.
The Immigration office cannot determine the rules for tax or pension. Independent contractor rules are separate.
There is no law or court ruling that makes it illegal for E2 visa holders to be an independent contractor.
If you sign a contract that does not contain pension or health insurance, and does not say directly that you are an "employee" and especially if you have hints such as a flat tax rate of 3.3% or 3.5% or more, then you have probably signed a contract to be a legal independent contractor. If you want to get pension and health insurance, and most teachers who come to Korea will be better off if they do, you should never sign such a contract.
Pension and health insurance and an appropriate tax rate according to the NTS site, explicitly spelled out in the contract, and words or clauses that explicitly state that you are an employee are minimum requirements for an acceptable contract. If these things are not present you should pass.
(Of course, there are teachers from certain countries or with certain personal situations that determine that they can make a better deal as a part time, hourly or temporary worker or independent contractor and come out ahead. Fine. Dance with the devil if you dare.)
Teachers should not listen to the foolish advice of those who deny the existence of the legal independent contractor status. This causes all kinds of harm to teachers, and newbies especially, who think it doesn't matter that those things are in the contract, because they are legally required for all. These teachers then go on to get screwed. |
I feel like I'm I'm talking to wall here, but for the..I can't count how many times now on how many different pension threads regarding pension and e-2's...I'll ask again for a single reference that supports your claims.
BTW I dont deny the existence of independent contractor status for many people, it's just by the conditions for and the approval of an e-2 visa that you cannot be an 'independent' contractor. You are sponsored by and under the direct control of a single employer - making anything but 'independent'....and lack of enforcement does not make it legal.
Also, everyone here is still waiting for your sources for the numbers that show only 1-2% of employers dont contribute to pension. Another claim that you have made numerous times with nothing to back it up, even after repeated requests...
You also claim on another thread that there is a thread here on dave's from the past that debunks the independent contractor 'myth'. Where is that thread? |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: |
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My wife and I own a Foreign Language School. We are required, by law, to enroll anyone employed under an E2 Visa, into the NHIC and National Pension. We are their sponsor, according to the laws. Yes, we have talked to these government agencies, face to face. The agents pointed out the laws in their books. Then, we did the paper work. Legally, we've been told, we must pay since they are on an E2 and we are their sponsor. Straight from the horse's (government agencies') mouth.
Yes, we pay pension and insurance. It's easier to pay someone 2.1 million and provide all the benefits, than to pay someone 2.3 million without benefits and have that someone unhappy. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| OculisOrbis wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| OculisOrbis wrote: |
| Depends where youre from regarding the lump sum refund when you leave, but in most cases (all cases, really, but its just that they dont enforce the fact that e-2 visa teachers cannot be independent contractors) you are legally required to be enrolled and submit to the national pension and health insurance programs. |
This is just stubborn stupidity on your part.
The Immigration office cannot determine the rules for tax or pension. Independent contractor rules are separate.
There is no law or court ruling that makes it illegal for E2 visa holders to be an independent contractor.
If you sign a contract that does not contain pension or health insurance, and does not say directly that you are an "employee" and especially if you have hints such as a flat tax rate of 3.3% or 3.5% or more, then you have probably signed a contract to be a legal independent contractor. If you want to get pension and health insurance, and most teachers who come to Korea will be better off if they do, you should never sign such a contract.
Pension and health insurance and an appropriate tax rate according to the NTS site, explicitly spelled out in the contract, and words or clauses that explicitly state that you are an employee are minimum requirements for an acceptable contract. If these things are not present you should pass.
(Of course, there are teachers from certain countries or with certain personal situations that determine that they can make a better deal as a part time, hourly or temporary worker or independent contractor and come out ahead. Fine. Dance with the devil if you dare.)
Teachers should not listen to the foolish advice of those who deny the existence of the legal independent contractor status. This causes all kinds of harm to teachers, and newbies especially, who think it doesn't matter that those things are in the contract, because they are legally required for all. These teachers then go on to get screwed. |
I feel like I'm I'm talking to wall here, but for the..I can't count how many times now on how many different pension threads regarding pension and e-2's...I'll ask again for a single reference that supports your claims.
BTW I dont deny the existence of independent contractor status for many people, it's just by the conditions for and the approval of an e-2 visa that you cannot be an 'independent' contractor. You are sponsored by and under the direct control of a single employer - making anything but 'independent'....and lack of enforcement does not make it legal.
Also, everyone here is still waiting for your sources for the numbers that show only 1-2% of employers dont contribute to pension. Another claim that you have made numerous times with nothing to back it up, even after repeated requests...
You also claim on another thread that there is a thread here on dave's from the past that debunks the independent contractor 'myth'. Where is that thread? |
Employers are required under law to enroll E2 employees into Pension. The employer is the sponsor of the E2; no, the E2 holder isn't an independent contractor. However, some don't. The DON'T is way more than 2%. WAY MORE! |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| wooden nickels wrote: |
| It's easier to pay someone 2.1 million and provide all the benefits, than to pay someone 2.3 million without benefits and have that someone unhappy. |
Quite wise.
Unfortuately, such wisdom does not seem to enter the minds of those school owners that resort to cunning schemes to pretend to pay more with one hand and take it back with the other. Legal or not, it's stupid to be so devious. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| It's easier to pay someone 2.1 million and provide all the benefits, than to pay someone 2.3 million without benefits and have that someone unhappy. |
Quite wise.
Unfortuately, such wisdom does not seem to enter the minds of those school owners that resort to cunning schemes to pretend to pay more with one hand and take it back with the other. Legal or not, it's stupid to be so devious. |
However, you avoid the real meat of the topic. |
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