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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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 Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Had it been a Jewish man that lied to a Muslim woman about his religion, do you honestly believe same would happen, that the Jewish man would be charged by rape? |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| , but it should be held to some standard Summer Wine. |
Ok, fine then.
Whos standard?
What standard are we using and for what issue?
I am not a jew, I am not a fundamentalist christian. I am not a muslim.
So tell me, what standard and whos standard should we use everytime 'Israel' enters the argument scene.
I would have expected a similar court decision in my own country. A man used a untruth to get laid. Are we discussing it for that reason or are we discussing it because it happened in Israel?
Iran just senteced a woman to death for adultury. The same situation just occurred in Israel, yet they sentenced him to prison, and people seem upset he was sentenced to prison.
So whose standards are being used to judge Israel, because it doesn't seem they are arguing the case but rather the country. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
Iran just senteced a woman to death for adultury. The same situation just occurred in Israel, yet they sentenced him to prison, and people seem upset he was sentenced to prison.
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The reason we care is that we know Iran is batshit crazy. I'm definitely never going there and would avoid spending money that ends up there if it were reasonably easy to do. Israel has some respect still, so it's noteworthy when it erodes. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The reason we care is that we know Iran is batshit crazy. |
Well we don't know that Iran is batshit crazy.
We know thier Government makes unusual arguments and currently supports unusual issues.
When your Govt does batshit crazy things does the rest of the world claim that your country is batshit crazy?
My Government is currently batshit crazy, that does not make my country batshit crazy and subsequently as I am a immigrant and no longer a resident of my country, any batshit crazy thing I do is no longer attributle to my country.
All batshit wannabe people take note. We represent ourselves not our countries. Yes, we know the president of Iran is batshit crazy but he is not the country, he is a target waiting to happen. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| I would have expected a similar court decision in my own country. A man used a untruth to get laid. |
For this, you expect a man in the West to go to prison for rape???  |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Quote: |
| , but it should be held to some standard Summer Wine. |
Ok, fine then.
Whos standard?
What standard are we using and for what issue?
I am not a jew, I am not a fundamentalist christian. I am not a muslim.
So tell me, what standard and whos standard should we use everytime 'Israel' enters the argument scene.
I would have expected a similar court decision in my own country. A man used a untruth to get laid. Are we discussing it for that reason or are we discussing it because it happened in Israel?
Iran just senteced a woman to death for adultury. The same situation just occurred in Israel, yet they sentenced him to prison, and people seem upset he was sentenced to prison.
So whose standards are being used to judge Israel, because it doesn't seem they are arguing the case but rather the country. |
Give me a break. No one in Israel goes to jail for lying to a woman and saying he loves her. The Arab used a nickname common to many Jews and slept with a Jewish woman. It seems like it was so horrible because he was not Jewish. It's a ridiculous ruling. Since when does Israel throw Jews in jail for lying about their age? I have never read such rulings. The closest thing to that is someone got sued for fraud for claiming to be surgeon.
There is just that precedent of man claiming to be neurosurgeon who was convicted of fraud. The Arab says he didn't inform the woman that he was not Jewish. He didn't say he was claiming to want a serious relationship
or anything. The story doesn't add up. She slept with him willingly. If she wanted a serious relationship or was thinking of one, you don't go sleeping with a guy generally. I think she was shocked that she slept with an Arab man.
The ruling is bad...Since when do we sentence men in America or Canada for lying to women and them going to bed with them unless he used violence?
How many guys deceive women to get into their pants? Are you sure you know our countries? You would expect such a ruling? Imagine if
a black man who looks white gets sued because a white woman thought he was white. That's what this sounds like. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Quote: |
| , but it should be held to some standard Summer Wine. |
Ok, fine then.
Whos standard?
...
I would have expected a similar court decision in my own country. A man used a untruth to get laid. |
Well, to begin answering your question then: not yours. Being convicted of rape after consensual sex with an adult isn't acceptable, even if you happened to lie to them beforehand.
I think anyone would have a hard time creating a genuinely comprehensive list of standards a nation should meet. That doesn't mean that, in individual cases, it isn't easy to see to particular actions assuredly fail to live up to what such a standard would demand of a nation; we don't need to know precisely where the line is to know something is past it. This is one such case, and there are other such cases as well. Supporters of Israel do it and its people a disservice to overlook and/or try to justify such things. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| I would have expected a similar court decision in my own country. A man used a untruth to get laid. |
For this, you expect a man in the West to go to prison for rape??? |
Isn't this half of all men? I mean how far would you take it? Men lie all the time about things like how much money they make, that they actually love the girl, etc. I agree with Bacasper on this. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| I would have expected a similar court decision in my own country. A man used a untruth to get laid. |
For this, you expect a man in the West to go to prison for rape??? |
Isn't this half of all men? I mean how far would you take it? Men lie all the time about things like how much money they make, that they actually love the girl, etc. I agree with Bacasper on this. |
I'm guessing it is more than half. Anyway, glad you agree.
Now where are all the 'zero tolerance for rape' people? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| I would have expected a similar court decision in my own country. A man used a untruth to get laid. |
For this, you expect a man in the West to go to prison for rape??? |
Isn't this half of all men? I mean how far would you take it? Men lie all the time about things like how much money they make, that they actually love the girl, etc. I agree with Bacasper on this. |
I'm guessing it is more than half. Anyway, glad you agree.
Now where are all the 'zero tolerance for rape' people? |
Just as I thought: nowhere to be found.
In the meanwhile, Irish artists have joined the boycott of Israeli apartheid.
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| Inspired by the South African anti-apartheid cultural boycott, the Palestinian academic and cultural boycott call [3] has relied entirely on moral pressure, appealing to the conscience of the artists in question as well as their fans. The main rationale behind this call is that performing in a state that practices occupation, colonization and apartheid, as Israel does, cannot be regarded as a purely artistic act, if any such act exists. Regardless of intentions, such an act is a conscious form of complicity that is manipulated by Israel in its frantic efforts to whitewash its persistent violations of international law and Palestinian rights. This is because artistic performances in Israel promote a �business as usual� attitude that normalizes and sanitizes a state that has persistently committed war crimes over several decades -- in Gaza, Jerusalem, the Naqab (Negev), and most recently, in the high seas against international humanitarian relief workers aboard the Freedom Flotilla. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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So all these statements and proposals sound good. But what actual or practical effects has this boycott had?
According to this link...apparently not much
http://www.israpundit.com/archives/24905
"Not one college or university has even sold one share of a company the divesters identify as an immoral supporter of Israel. The divesters are good at attracting crowds, writing manifestos, passing motions and getting their opinions on TV. But they get few results. Boards of universities, corporations, and churches all reject divestment proposals."
More at link
And one would expect Palestinians to be the biggest supporter of said boycott, right?
Not so
http://www.israpundit.com/archives/25563
According to this 90% of the new Gaza mall's goods come from Israel. Obviously they can get goods from elsewhere (only 90% from Israel) so why don't they?
Inquiring minds want to know... |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
So all these statements and proposals sound good. But what actual or practical effects has this boycott had?
According to this link...apparently not much
http://www.israpundit.com/archives/24905
"Not one college or university has even sold one share of a company the divesters identify as an immoral supporter of Israel. The divesters are good at attracting crowds, writing manifestos, passing motions and getting their opinions on TV. But they get few results. Boards of universities, corporations, and churches all reject divestment proposals."
More at link
And one would expect Palestinians to be the biggest supporter of said boycott, right?
Not so
http://www.israpundit.com/archives/25563
According to this 90% of the new Gaza mall's goods come from Israel. Obviously they can get goods from elsewhere (only 90% from Israel) so why don't they?
Inquiring minds want to know... |
And the silence is deafening. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
So all these statements and proposals sound good. But what actual or practical effects has this boycott had?
According to this link...apparently not much
http://www.israpundit.com/archives/24905
"Not one college or university has even sold one share of a company the divesters identify as an immoral supporter of Israel. The divesters are good at attracting crowds, writing manifestos, passing motions and getting their opinions on TV. But they get few results. Boards of universities, corporations, and churches all reject divestment proposals."
More at link
And one would expect Palestinians to be the biggest supporter of said boycott, right?
Not so
http://www.israpundit.com/archives/25563
According to this 90% of the new Gaza mall's goods come from Israel. Obviously they can get goods from elsewhere (only 90% from Israel) so why don't they?
Inquiring minds want to know... |
And the silence is deafening. |
Well when Israel controls what comes in and out it probably makes it simpler and cheaper to do so. |
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El Exigente
Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Well when Israel controls what comes in and out it probably makes it simpler and cheaper to do so. |
Yeah, I guess that was as pretty silly question to begin with.
Eminent Scholar Ann Stoler Endorses Boycott of Israel
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As someone who has worked for some thirty years as a teacher and student of colonial studies� on comparative colonial situations, colonial histories, and the violent and subtle forms of governance on which colonial regimes rely, it would be difficult not to describe the Israeli state as a colonial one. It would be difficult not to recognize Israel�s past and ongoing illegal seizure of Palestinian land, the racialization of every aspect of daily life, and the large-scale and piecemeal demolition of Palestinian homes, destruction of livelihoods, and efforts to destroy the social and family fabric, as decimation by concerted and concentrated colonial design. These are the well-honed practices of regimes that define colonialisms and have flourished across the imperial globe. As with other colonial regimes, the Israeli state designates and redraws geographic borders, suspends Palestinian civil rights and arbitrarily transgresses what for Israelis are recognized and guarded as private space.
Israel is particular but it is not unique. Its techniques of occupation are based on unfounded uses of the legal apparatus of Israeli law. These are the practices of a colonial state committed to replacing and displacing a Palestinian population, and committed to its own expansion. That expansion is persistent, both surreptitious and blatant everyday: room by room in the old city of Jerusalem, house by house in the spread of settler communities, meter by meter as the placement of the Wall in the name of �security� cuts through homes and fields, and divides neighborhoods while it infringes further into legally recognized Palestinian territories. At issue is both a confiscation of history and a confiscation of the future possibilities of those who today find their bedding thrown on the streets in the middle of the night by Israeli settlers.
If democracy is defined, as Hannah Arendt did, by �the right to have rights� for an entire population within the state�s jurisdiction, the Israeli state cannot be considered a democratic one. Nor can a democracy be founded on the principle of expulsion and the creation of a diasporic population shorn of its land, belongings and citizenship � a principle avidly embraced by Israel since l948. For these reasons, I confirm my support for the BDS international boycott of those Israeli institutions that actively or passively accept a status quo that condones and expands the occupation, violates international law, enforces military control and denies Palestinian rights to self-determination.
Ann Laura Stoler
Willy Brandt Distinguished University Professor
Of Anthropology and Historical Studies
The New School for Social Research
New York, New York 10003
10 September 2010 |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| El Exigente wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Well when Israel controls what comes in and out it probably makes it simpler and cheaper to do so. |
Yeah, I guess that was as pretty silly question to begin with.
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Actually it was an excellent question as it displays the irony of the situation perfectly. Outside of Israel we have people calling for a boycott of Israeli goods while inside we have Palestinians buying them.
The fact that it MAY be cheaper or simpler should not matter as this is supposed to be an act of principle.
And as shown above it is perfectly possible to get non-Israeli goods. |
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