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I'm not from your country but I know more about it than you
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jmuns



Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Location: earth

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:17 pm    Post subject: I'm not from your country but I know more about it than you Reply with quote

why does everyone always assume they know how everything works in other countries? unless you have lived there for more than say 3-5 years can you really know?
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Skipperoo



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Know how everything works' is pretty vague, perhaps you could narrow it down?

I would wager, for example, that we have a much more accurate picture of how insane Kim Jong Ill is than your average North Korean. However a North Korean resident will have a much better knowledge of local customs and cultural idiosyncrasies than us.
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jmuns



Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Location: earth

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its suppose to be vague. have you ever read any threads here?

education
taxes
health care
military
politics
politicians
media
sports
language
business
people
culture
etc....
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brickabrack



Joined: 17 May 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...or, for instance


hagwons, ed institutions would rather higher a younger, more beautiful teacher rather than a more qualified and experienced teacher.

Some of my cohorts are amazed (or in denial) that this is common practice.

It helps if you're experienced and good looking, though.

I'm not sure if this is the best example.
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Skipperoo



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

its suppose to be vague. have you ever read any threads here?

education
taxes
health care
military
politics
politicians
media
sports
language
business
people
culture
etc....


So your question is, 'is it possible for a non-resident to know more regarding ANYTHING AT ALL about a given country, than a resident of that country'?


Yes, obviously. Confused
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not from your country but I know more about it than you


is a very common and annoying attitude.

Problem comes when it is held by foreign Politicians...who want to re-model less powerful countries in their own image.
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hagwonnewbie



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The most objective view is from a distance.
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Mariella713



Joined: 22 May 2010

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm not from your country but I know more about it than Reply with quote

What do you mean "how things work"? You say it's supposed to be vague, WTF? Yes, indeed I know how things work in other countries relating to education, taxes, health care, sports etc...anyone who's not a dumb ass could know about it if they wanted to.

"I'm not from your country but I know more about it than you" - some people are completey ignorant as to how their country works. It's not impossible to know more about ones country than the native person of that country does.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hagwonnewbie wrote:
The most objective view is from a distance.


I disagree, the best view is from the front lines.

The further away you get, the more your information degrades.
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Globutron



Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Location: England/Anyang

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
hagwonnewbie wrote:
The most objective view is from a distance.


I disagree, the best view is from the front lines.

The further away you get, the more your information degrades.


Yes but look from a pair of american binoculars and you see an old temple that is brown and wearing away, very old and spectacular.

Look from the eyes of a local and it's a spiritual and eternal masterpiece made by the gods.

Silly metaphor but the point is Objectivity doesn't necessitate high quality information. Which is a fine point to raise in this discussion.
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Seoulio



Joined: 02 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it depends on the country and how educated the person is on said country

For example, I am Canadian, but I know all of the American states and capitals ( something less than 20 percent of Americans know) And in addition to that ( since thats not terribly impressive) I read book after book on The American economy, American politics, America's global role, as well as watching practically every American documentary there is.

NOw I love my country, but America basically strongarms the world at the moment, I have made sure that I am educated about how it works, and its history.

So I am confident I know more about America than a lot of Americans, and barring that I am WELL versed in Americana and have no problem making discussion comment suggesting I know America despite having not lived there.

Living there is only one component of knowing how a country operates.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with outside objectivity is that the people on the outside are rarely, if ever, objective themselves. Unfortunately, the inverse number of those people believe themselves to be objective.

While having sufficient information may not guarantee a correct objective viewpoint, lacking sufficient information would guarantee that your view is not objective as well as inaccurate.

There is also a difference between having a lot of knowledge about a place and understanding a place. In order to have understanding one needs both wisdom and humility. A person who lacks humility will fail at objectively viewing a place before they even start. With that humility the person observing the other culture also needs patience. The arrogant, rash outsider trying to view another culture will not be objective. They are to eager to 'figure' the place out and label it.

There is something to be said for experience. Experience covers all the intangible things that are necessary. Things that are lost and not readily observant.
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Seoulio



Joined: 02 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
The problem with outside objectivity is that the people on the outside are rarely, if ever, objective themselves. Unfortunately, the inverse number of those people believe themselves to be objective.

While having sufficient information may not guarantee a correct objective viewpoint, lacking sufficient information would guarantee that your view is not objective as well as inaccurate.

There is also a difference between having a lot of knowledge about a place and understanding a place. In order to have understanding one needs both wisdom and humility. A person who lacks humility will fail at objectively viewing a place before they even start. With that humility the person observing the other culture also needs patience. The arrogant, rash outsider trying to view another culture will not be objective. They are to eager to 'figure' the place out and label it.

There is something to be said for experience. Experience covers all the intangible things that are necessary. Things that are lost and not readily observant.


And experience also breeds a lack of objectivity.

I would argue the outside observer is at least double in objectivity over the average native on that country
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nukeday



Joined: 13 May 2010

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seoulio wrote:

I would argue the outside observer is at least double in objectivity over the average native on that country


I hardly consider most non-Americans opinions about America to be objective. There tends to be an axe to grind.

If we're going to talk about a less controversial, center-stage nation like, let's say...Belgium...then perhaps a foreigner's perspective is more objective.
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Seoulio



Joined: 02 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nukeday wrote:
Seoulio wrote:

I would argue the outside observer is at least double in objectivity over the average native on that country


I hardly consider most non-Americans opinions about America to be objective. There tends to be an axe to grind.

If we're going to talk about a less controversial, center-stage nation like, let's say...Belgium...then perhaps a foreigner's perspective is more objective.


Well as with many posters on Daves, opinion and reality do not often coincide ( mine included)

Most people I know who are non american and critical of the country are being far too kind, and more than objective.

Its often the typical American thinking "we are not that bad" and that American is even good in the global sense that start my gag reflex tingling.

Most Americans I have met are fairly well educated and are fully informed on Americana and America's (often negative) impact on the Global stage. Others are hoplessly misinformed and are practically holding up the American flag chanting U.S.A....U.S.A when discussing the subject.

Now I have said it many times, Americans by and large are a good and decent people, hard working, decent values, kind hearted.

The government and corporations that run the show though are power hungry greedy selfish bullies. Living in America changes neither of these facts or perceptions. And knowing and commenting on this does not make us non-objective.

I hardly think you can say that we can't be objective if we are talking about America, well you can say it, but I don't think it would be accurate Smile
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