|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| What about women who deceive men? Why is the Op so one-sided? |
Well, OK then. Have you ever deeply regretted having sex with a woman because she was an Arab or married (and pretended to be single) or whatever. And was it very distressing for you? Is sex something that you only want in certain conditions with very particular partners? Does each encounter feel very significant to you? If so, then yes, women should be charged with some sort of misdemeanor when they fraudulently lure you into their bed.
But we know in reality that most men are delighted at the chance to bang just about anything in a skirt if they can get away with it. Let's get real! Whereas for women the sexual act is usually deeply intimate and often utterly unbearable with the wrong the partner. We are letting another into our bodies, deep inside us, allowing them into a most intimate place. It's a much bigger deal for most women than it is for most men. If you need to build up trust and intimacy before you can countenance sex with your partner, it is likely to lead to huge distress if you have been duped into it.
That's not to say that all women are choosy about their sexual encounters. Some are very reckless. But most are not. How about for men? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
False rape charges make the news big time. But the majority of true allegations never ever make it into the news, and rarely even make it into court.
People also make false allegations regarding other crimes too. Shall we take those crimes off the statutes too? What lawless kind of world do you wish to live in.
Will you still feel this way if ever you have daughters SS? Or will you think it of no consequence when your daughters suffer the horrendous experience of rape in a society that no longer even attempts to prosecute the crime. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| What about women who deceive men? Why is the Op so one-sided? |
Well, OK then. Have you ever deeply regretted having sex with a woman because she was an Arab or married (and pretended to be single) or whatever. And was it very distressing for you? Is sex something that you only want in certain conditions with very particular partners? Does each encounter feel very significant to you? If so, then yes, women should be charged with some sort of misdemeanor when they fraudulently lure you into their bed.
But we know in reality that most men are delighted at the chance to bang just about anything in a skirt if they can get away with it. Let's get real! Whereas for women the sexual act is usually deeply intimate and often utterly unbearable with the wrong the partner. We are letting another into our bodies, deep inside us, allowing them into a most intimate place. It's a much bigger deal for most women than it is for most men. If you need to build up trust and intimacy before you can countenance sex with your partner, it is likely to lead to huge distress if you have been duped into it.
That's not to say that all women are choosy about their sexual encounters. Some are very reckless. But most are not. How about for men? |
Are you advocating that laws should be different for men and women? Either it's illegal to misrepresent yourself in an attempt to have sex, or it's not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NovaKart wrote: |
| I have absolutely zero sympathy for that woman. She hopped into bed with some delivery man she just met and now she's upset because she found out he's not a jew. |
Neither do I. If the thought of sleeping with an Arab was that repugnant to her, it was up to her to ensure he was what she wanted him to be, and she shouldn't have hopped straight into the sack with him.
| NovaKart wrote: |
| I think it's pretty sexist to feel this guy had it coming to him. |
If, as I first understood the situation, he had been intentionally and properly wooing her, telling her that he intended to have a longterm relationship with her, and that he was indeed Jewish, and on that basis she had made the decision to sleep with him, then yeah I reckon he would have had something coming to him (though perhaps not an 18 month sentence).
| NovaKart wrote: |
| If a woman lies about her age, says she's 30 and she's really 40, is she raping a man? People constantly misrepresent themselves to get sex, both male and female. |
If the man is really distressed that he has slept with a 40 year old, and wouldn't have otherwise been able to contemplate sex with her if he'd known the truth and thus feels horribly violated, then yeah, she's done him wrong. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bacasper wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
A woman should be able to stop at any time if she suddenly finds she doesn't want it. Maybe she started to fear the consequences of him ejaculating. Pregnancy. Disease. Maybe it just felt awful and she couldn't bear it any more. Maybe she was gritting her teeth and starting to cry. She had every right to ask him to stop. Sex is a different experience for a woman. Sometimes it is really wonderful - but only in the right circumstances. In the wrong circumstances it can be truly awful.
I didn't take in the sentence at first. 4 years imprisonment is extremely harsh. I would have sentenced him to some sort of educational program. |
Did you also miss the part about it all being a plot by the woman and the guy's wife (just happened to be best friends, btw)? |
It doesn't matter. Is it a crime to have sex with your friend's husband? No. It may not be in the best taste, but it doesn't mean that once she commenced that she no longer had autonomy over her own body and had to continue with an activity she could no longer bear. |
You still don't get it. The two women plotted for the girlfriend to begin the sex, then in mid-sex say, "Stop," and charge him with rape when he immediately did not. This was premeditated rape entrapment!  |
If it is really true that these women plotted to get him into this situation (and I haven't read about it and can only take your word for it) then they apparantly knew that he would not stop when he was asked to. Therefore, he already had a history of doing such a thing (with his wife presumably). Therefore it's even harder to have sympathy for him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| What about women who deceive men? Why is the Op so one-sided? |
Well, OK then. Have you ever deeply regretted having sex with a woman because she was an Arab or married (and pretended to be single) or whatever. And was it very distressing for you? Is sex something that you only want in certain conditions with very particular partners? Does each encounter feel very significant to you? If so, then yes, women should be charged with some sort of misdemeanor when they fraudulently lure you into their bed.
But we know in reality that most men are delighted at the chance to bang just about anything in a skirt if they can get away with it. Let's get real! Whereas for women the sexual act is usually deeply intimate and often utterly unbearable with the wrong the partner. We are letting another into our bodies, deep inside us, allowing them into a most intimate place. It's a much bigger deal for most women than it is for most men. If you need to build up trust and intimacy before you can countenance sex with your partner, it is likely to lead to huge distress if you have been duped into it.
That's not to say that all women are choosy about their sexual encounters. Some are very reckless. But most are not. How about for men? |
You can't really say women are choosy when what you're arguing for is a law to protect women from their own lack of choosing skills. If it's that important to women, women will make sure the man is honest before doing something they might regret. The fact that they sometimes don't is proof in itself that in women, like in men, desire sometimes trumps discernment. Sorry, you don't need a law for this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
A woman should be able to stop at any time if she suddenly finds she doesn't want it. Maybe she started to fear the consequences of him ejaculating. Pregnancy. Disease. Maybe it just felt awful and she couldn't bear it any more. Maybe she was gritting her teeth and starting to cry. She had every right to ask him to stop. Sex is a different experience for a woman. Sometimes it is really wonderful - but only in the right circumstances. In the wrong circumstances it can be truly awful.
I didn't take in the sentence at first. 4 years imprisonment is extremely harsh. I would have sentenced him to some sort of educational program. |
Did you also miss the part about it all being a plot by the woman and the guy's wife (just happened to be best friends, btw)? |
It doesn't matter. Is it a crime to have sex with your friend's husband? No. It may not be in the best taste, but it doesn't mean that once she commenced that she no longer had autonomy over her own body and had to continue with an activity she could no longer bear. |
You still don't get it. The two women plotted for the girlfriend to begin the sex, then in mid-sex say, "Stop," and charge him with rape when he immediately did not. This was premeditated rape entrapment! |
If it is really true that these women plotted to get him into this situation (and I haven't read about it and can only take your word for it) then they apparantly knew that he would not stop when he was asked to. Therefore, he already had a history of doing such a thing (with his wife presumably). Therefore it's even harder to have sympathy for him. |
Then why didn't his wife charge him with rape? And we only have the other woman's word that she asked him to stop. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
A woman should be able to stop at any time if she suddenly finds she doesn't want it. Maybe she started to fear the consequences of him ejaculating. Pregnancy. Disease. Maybe it just felt awful and she couldn't bear it any more. Maybe she was gritting her teeth and starting to cry. She had every right to ask him to stop. Sex is a different experience for a woman. Sometimes it is really wonderful - but only in the right circumstances. In the wrong circumstances it can be truly awful.
I didn't take in the sentence at first. 4 years imprisonment is extremely harsh. I would have sentenced him to some sort of educational program. |
Did you also miss the part about it all being a plot by the woman and the guy's wife (just happened to be best friends, btw)? |
It doesn't matter. Is it a crime to have sex with your friend's husband? No. It may not be in the best taste, but it doesn't mean that once she commenced that she no longer had autonomy over her own body and had to continue with an activity she could no longer bear. |
You still don't get it. The two women plotted for the girlfriend to begin the sex, then in mid-sex say, "Stop," and charge him with rape when he immediately did not. This was premeditated rape entrapment! |
If it is really true that these women plotted to get him into this situation (and I haven't read about it and can only take your word for it) then they apparantly knew that he would not stop when he was asked to. Therefore, he already had a history of doing such a thing (with his wife presumably). Therefore it's even harder to have sympathy for him. |
|
I have no idea about this case. I don't know if he did indeed continue for 30 seconds as alleged. I have not read about it except as far as to read bcaspers complaints about it. I'm not interested in the specifics of any one case.
I'm only interested in the principle that continuing to f*** someone after they have made it clear they need you to stop should be unlawful. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Koveras wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| What about women who deceive men? Why is the Op so one-sided? |
Well, OK then. Have you ever deeply regretted having sex with a woman because she was an Arab or married (and pretended to be single) or whatever. And was it very distressing for you? Is sex something that you only want in certain conditions with very particular partners? Does each encounter feel very significant to you? If so, then yes, women should be charged with some sort of misdemeanor when they fraudulently lure you into their bed.
But we know in reality that most men are delighted at the chance to bang just about anything in a skirt if they can get away with it. Let's get real! Whereas for women the sexual act is usually deeply intimate and often utterly unbearable with the wrong the partner. We are letting another into our bodies, deep inside us, allowing them into a most intimate place. It's a much bigger deal for most women than it is for most men. If you need to build up trust and intimacy before you can countenance sex with your partner, it is likely to lead to huge distress if you have been duped into it.
That's not to say that all women are choosy about their sexual encounters. Some are very reckless. But most are not. How about for men? |
You can't really say women are choosy when what you're arguing for is a law to protect women from their own lack of choosing skills. If it's that important to women, women will make sure the man is honest before doing something they might regret. The fact that they sometimes don't is proof in itself that in women, like in men, desire sometimes trumps discernment. Sorry, you don't need a law for this. |
I've already made this same point.
However, as making sure the man is honest, I disagree. We can never be 100% sure that anyone is honest. If you take reasonable steps to ascertain the truth, and someone deliberately and carefully misleads you, they have a case to answer. If we were talking about financial fraud, I bet you would agree with me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I don't see how there was some conspiracy between the wife and that girl Maya. Anyway, she had sex with a guy thinking he was Jewish. Big deal. Why is that so important? Oh no, I had sex with someone and didn't know the person was black, white, Asian. It sounds so ridiculous just like their prime minister and general government. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| You can't really say women are choosy when what you're arguing for is a law to protect women from their own lack of choosing skills. If it's that important to women, women will make sure the man is honest before doing something they might regret. The fact that they sometimes don't is proof in itself that in women, like in men, desire sometimes trumps discernment. Sorry, you don't need a law for this. |
I've already made this same point.
However, as making sure the man is honest, I disagree. We can never be 100% sure that anyone is honest. If you take reasonable steps to ascertain the truth, and someone deliberately and carefully misleads you, they have a case to answer. If we were talking about financial fraud, I bet you would agree with me. |
Yes, I would, and that's because financial fraud is about property, not feelings. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adventurer wrote: |
| I don't see how there was some conspiracy between the wife and that girl Maya. |
You've not been following the thread. We are now talking about a different case entirely.
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Anyway, she had sex with a guy thinking he was Jewish. Big deal. Why is that so important? Oh no, I had sex with someone and didn't know the person was black, white, Asian. It sounds so ridiculous just like their prime minister and general government. |
It seems ridiculous to me. I have never chosen my friends or lovers on the basis of their ethnicity/religion and have never rejected any on such grounds. But I'm not a religious loon and nor have I been brought up in an apartheid state where I have imbibed all my life the supposed inferiority of another people.
However, there is no law that you should have to sleep with any person, no matter what their race/creed/colour etc. Our choice of partner is a very personal matter - one that the thought police should have no jurisdiction over. If it truly revolts you to sleep with someone of another race/religion whathaveyou, then it is your right to choose not to sleep with them. So, while I think the grounds for her distaste of him are quite repugnant, I accept that she is free to feel such a distaste, when it comes to sexual matters.
However, as I have said, if his ethnicity was so repugnant to her, she should have taken time to do her homework and not leapt into the sack right then and there.
If in fact she had bothered to try and do her homework, yet he had carefully and deliberately concealed his identity and continued to misrepresent himself to her, I think that would be reprehensible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Koveras wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| You can't really say women are choosy when what you're arguing for is a law to protect women from their own lack of choosing skills. If it's that important to women, women will make sure the man is honest before doing something they might regret. The fact that they sometimes don't is proof in itself that in women, like in men, desire sometimes trumps discernment. Sorry, you don't need a law for this. |
I've already made this same point.
However, as making sure the man is honest, I disagree. We can never be 100% sure that anyone is honest. If you take reasonable steps to ascertain the truth, and someone deliberately and carefully misleads you, they have a case to answer. If we were talking about financial fraud, I bet you would agree with me. |
Yes, I would, and that's because financial fraud is about property, not feelings. |
Because feelings are of no importance. Sure, Mr Spock. Tell that to the Vietnam veteran who lives a few doors down from me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| You can't really say women are choosy when what you're arguing for is a law to protect women from their own lack of choosing skills. If it's that important to women, women will make sure the man is honest before doing something they might regret. The fact that they sometimes don't is proof in itself that in women, like in men, desire sometimes trumps discernment. Sorry, you don't need a law for this. |
I've already made this same point.
However, as making sure the man is honest, I disagree. We can never be 100% sure that anyone is honest. If you take reasonable steps to ascertain the truth, and someone deliberately and carefully misleads you, they have a case to answer. If we were talking about financial fraud, I bet you would agree with me. |
Yes, I would, and that's because financial fraud is about property, not feelings. |
Because feelings are of no importance. Sure, Mr Spock. |
Not in legal affairs, at least. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| What about women who deceive men? Why is the Op so one-sided? |
Is sex something that you only want in certain conditions with very particular partners? Does each encounter feel very significant to you? |
Yes.
Every encounter I've had has a special place in my memory. If some girl had deceived me into having sex with her, it would make me feel betrayed - much like the person in the article. And it would seriously damage my thoughts on the experience.
That being said, I would not relate it to rape - I'd simply call it being duped.
As an aside, I realized a long time ago that women had a certain 'power' when it came to sex - that they could very easily say no. I adopted that strategy, and found that the choosier (more patient) I was, the more that power shifted.
The OP is not about a woman being raped. It's not even about sex. It's about someone who tricked their way into a position of power, and someone else who gave it to 'em. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
