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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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 Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:08 am Post subject: Who Killed the Electric Car? |
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Has anyone else viewed this film? It's narrated by Martin Sheen and its a quite informative documentary about all the guilty parties that killed the Electric car.
The most interesting part for me was after the Car manufacturers won and convinced the law makers to veto the law that forced them to make electric cars ( there was an emissions law that basically mandated companies to make a certian number of cars ZERO emission cars, they said okay, made them, but would ONLY lease them, you could not buy them) they then refused ALL people holding leases an extension on their lease. They had all the cars taken back, and they simply destroyed them.
Swept under the rug
It's cool little documentary on just how influential corporate greed can be, how the government is paid off to act with big Business, and how the average consumer is too stupid to think for themselves and look past the propaganda coming out of both of them.
Anyone esle see it and wish to comment? |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Fact of the matter is:
Gasoline is cheap. Internal Combustion Engine is cheap to manufacture.
That is what killed the electric car. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Fact of the matter is:
Gasoline is cheap. Internal Combustion Engine is cheap to manufacture.
That is what killed the electric car. |
Bingo.
There isn't any doubt that the autos acted nefariously in this case, but what right does gov have to tell them what to produce? They fulfilled their obligations, why all the whining? |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Fact of the matter is:
Gasoline is cheap. Internal Combustion Engine is cheap to manufacture.
That is what killed the electric car. |
Maybe gas is cheap, but drivers pay a lot more in the long run because internal combustion cars have parts that break down more often than electric cars.
This is a claim that the film makes. GM and the other car companies make a lot of money selling you replacement parts. They found that in addition to being cleaner, electric cars broke down less often. This is not in the car company's interest.
GM and the other car companies are finally being pushed to produce electric cars by competition from countries like China. Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hKz7AS7qv0 |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
Fact of the matter is:
Gasoline is cheap. Internal Combustion Engine is cheap to manufacture.
That is what killed the electric car. |
Maybe gas is cheap, but drivers pay a lot more in the long run because internal combustion cars have parts that break down more often than electric cars.
This is a claim that the film makes. GM and the other car companies make a lot of money selling you replacement parts. They found that in addition to being cleaner, electric cars broke down less often. This is not in the car company's interest.
GM and the other car companies are finally being pushed to produce electric cars by competition from countries like China. Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hKz7AS7qv0 |
Don't electric cars have batteries that cost thousands of dollars that have to be replaced every now and again?
If electric cars were cheaper, someone would be making them. The car companies don't have a monopoly on making cars. Though govt regs and tax regimes don't help at all, at least in the states. Do you think the Chinese wouldn't be making an electric car if they could turn a buck? Or the Koreans for that matter? Fat chance. |
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sheriffadam
Joined: 10 May 2010
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: |
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how annoying is it when your walkman runs out of AA power,
imagine YOUR CAR doing that! A thousand times worse! electrics cars never work for that reason, crap range, crap speed, crap recharging times, crap battery cost, crap battery damage to the environment when its dead after 3-5 years. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Batteries degrade over time. Replacing batteries in an electric car is VERY expensive.
Replacing a Prius's battery is like $4000 + labor. You could probably get a cheaper battery from a junkyard/salvage yard.
That is for a hybrid. A full electric car would run much more than that. That is JUST FOR THE BATTERY.
Don't forget about infrastructure. How many Electric charging stations do you see around? It takes like 10 minutes to fill up a car from empty to a full tank of gas. How long do you think it takes Electric cars? You'd have to stay overnight someplace to complete the charge.
Electric cars are not economical. They are expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, and can not go long distances.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for electric cars. When I get back to the US, I would seriously consider buying a Prius. The point of my post here is that you can't just point the finger at big business and say, "You killed the electric car, its all YOUR fault."
Yes, the automotive industry did have some part to play in delaying hybrid/electric auto technology. Because of that, they are being punished now by lagging sales and playing catch-up with Japanese companies. There were many factors in why the electric cars didn't take off sooner. One of the main reasons was consumers.
Why would US car companies consider switching to electric vehicles when high gas mileage compact/mid sized cars were sitting on lots unsold, and SUV's/big engine sedans/coupes were selling like crazy? |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Dev wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
Fact of the matter is:
Gasoline is cheap. Internal Combustion Engine is cheap to manufacture.
That is what killed the electric car. |
Maybe gas is cheap, but drivers pay a lot more in the long run because internal combustion cars have parts that break down more often than electric cars.
This is a claim that the film makes. GM and the other car companies make a lot of money selling you replacement parts. They found that in addition to being cleaner, electric cars broke down less often. This is not in the car company's interest.
GM and the other car companies are finally being pushed to produce electric cars by competition from countries like China. Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hKz7AS7qv0 |
Don't electric cars have batteries that cost thousands of dollars that have to be replaced every now and again?
If electric cars were cheaper, someone would be making them. The car companies don't have a monopoly on making cars. Though govt regs and tax regimes don't help at all, at least in the states. Do you think the Chinese wouldn't be making an electric car if they could turn a buck? Or the Koreans for that matter? Fat chance. |
The Chinese are making electric cars. Not only that. They're hoping to have them on the U.S. market in a couple of years.
I guess you haven't watched the video I posted in this thread.
I wonder if the car manufacturers are in bed with the big oil companies? I've heard in two lectures that the car companies have made almost no progress in mileage (on gas cars). |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder how much electric bills would go up if you charge a car every single day? |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Fact of the matter is:
Gasoline is cheap. Internal Combustion Engine is cheap to manufacture.
That is what killed the electric car. |
Wow simplistic view,
Rebutal
Electircity is cheap
Electric cars have NO motor, and require virtually no maintenance, oil changes etc. so they are virtualy free of maintenance costs ( where the car companies make a good chunk of the money) |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
Fact of the matter is:
Gasoline is cheap. Internal Combustion Engine is cheap to manufacture.
That is what killed the electric car. |
Bingo.
There isn't any doubt that the autos acted nefariously in this case, but what right does gov have to tell them what to produce? They fulfilled their obligations, why all the whining? |
Yeah why does the govermnet have the right to say "make SOME cars that don't pollute our planet"
They had the balls to do it for like a year and a half until the Car companies sued them and pressured them to backtrack |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Dev wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
Fact of the matter is:
Gasoline is cheap. Internal Combustion Engine is cheap to manufacture.
That is what killed the electric car. |
Maybe gas is cheap, but drivers pay a lot more in the long run because internal combustion cars have parts that break down more often than electric cars.
This is a claim that the film makes. GM and the other car companies make a lot of money selling you replacement parts. They found that in addition to being cleaner, electric cars broke down less often. This is not in the car company's interest.
GM and the other car companies are finally being pushed to produce electric cars by competition from countries like China. Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hKz7AS7qv0 |
Don't electric cars have batteries that cost thousands of dollars that have to be replaced every now and again?
If electric cars were cheaper, someone would be making them. The car companies don't have a monopoly on making cars. Though govt regs and tax regimes don't help at all, at least in the states. Do you think the Chinese wouldn't be making an electric car if they could turn a buck? Or the Koreans for that matter? Fat chance. |
NOPE the battery technology was excellent, and quite reasonable, and the batteries outlasted the car.
Electric cars ARE cheaper, this is a proven fact. But the world is still has an obsession with oil, and MANY companies have a stake in oil sales. An Electric car still costs about the same to produce as a regular car, its the AFTER costs that make it cheaper ( gas, maintenance) etc, so there is NO motivation for the car companies to make a product that people buy in its original form ( gas powered) anyway.
So no your comment is not quite accurate |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| sheriffadam wrote: |
how annoying is it when your walkman runs out of AA power,
imagine YOUR CAR doing that! A thousand times worse! electrics cars never work for that reason, crap range, crap speed, crap recharging times, crap battery cost, crap battery damage to the environment when its dead after 3-5 years. |
crap range - 120 miles ( in the FIRST one, and improved after that) and you could charge it daily. Thats good for about 90 percent of the average drivers
Crap speed - NOPE an electirc car accelerated faster and smoother than a gas car, and had a higher average top speed than virtually any other car ( excluding sports cars)
Crap REcharging TImes - Possibly I dont have info on this, but most people only needed to charge at night
Crap Battery Cost - SORT OF, the battery was much higher, but it was virtually the ONLY thing you needed to pay extra for, and you didnt have to do ANY oil changes or other mainetance
Batter Damage Dead after 3-5 years - NOPE the batterie laster longer than the cars ( well I should say the second generation on did.
It should be noted that EVEN THOUGH They had the new and improved super battery ready to go for the first electric car fabrication GM decided to go with the weaker less effective battery. They WANTED the elecctric car to die to they said "yep we willl but the worse battery in the car" even though battery Two would have had virtually NO problems for the average car buyer. |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Batteries degrade over time. Replacing batteries in an electric car is VERY expensive.
Replacing a Prius's battery is like $4000 + labor. You could probably get a cheaper battery from a junkyard/salvage yard.
That is for a hybrid. A full electric car would run much more than that. That is JUST FOR THE BATTERY.
Don't forget about infrastructure. How many Electric charging stations do you see around? It takes like 10 minutes to fill up a car from empty to a full tank of gas. How long do you think it takes Electric cars? You'd have to stay overnight someplace to complete the charge.
Electric cars are not economical. They are expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, and can not go long distances.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for electric cars. When I get back to the US, I would seriously consider buying a Prius. The point of my post here is that you can't just point the finger at big business and say, "You killed the electric car, its all YOUR fault."
Yes, the automotive industry did have some part to play in delaying hybrid/electric auto technology. Because of that, they are being punished now by lagging sales and playing catch-up with Japanese companies. There were many factors in why the electric cars didn't take off sooner. One of the main reasons was consumers.
Why would US car companies consider switching to electric vehicles when high gas mileage compact/mid sized cars were sitting on lots unsold, and SUV's/big engine sedans/coupes were selling like crazy? |
Seeing as though the electric car was around in 1900s and the oil companies effectively killed it by sudden mass production of gas cars and offered them at a lower price, it was FORD that effectively kiled the electric car first. People back then loved them more, but big business killed it.
Electric fueling stations - There were many in california, and chanrging was not a problem.
Virtually EVERY person who had an electric car wanted to buy it, GM and the other companies refused, and instead took the cars back and had them destroyed.
Their ads confused people ( the were promoting it in words, but the images were scary and odd, so buyers got confused
YEs consumers share some of the blame, but there was no real chance for the electric car ( have you watched the film, I am guessing not)
Also electric cars came out BEFORE the hummer SUV craze. They didnt have to "switch" they killled the electric car and then sort of started this huge gas guzzling car phase.
There are about 6 different parties responsible for killing the electric car ( many of them interconnected/working together to stop the product) |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Dev wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
Fact of the matter is:
Gasoline is cheap. Internal Combustion Engine is cheap to manufacture.
That is what killed the electric car. |
Maybe gas is cheap, but drivers pay a lot more in the long run because internal combustion cars have parts that break down more often than electric cars.
This is a claim that the film makes. GM and the other car companies make a lot of money selling you replacement parts. They found that in addition to being cleaner, electric cars broke down less often. This is not in the car company's interest.
GM and the other car companies are finally being pushed to produce electric cars by competition from countries like China. Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hKz7AS7qv0 |
Don't electric cars have batteries that cost thousands of dollars that have to be replaced every now and again?
If electric cars were cheaper, someone would be making them. The car companies don't have a monopoly on making cars. Though govt regs and tax regimes don't help at all, at least in the states. Do you think the Chinese wouldn't be making an electric car if they could turn a buck? Or the Koreans for that matter? Fat chance. |
The Chinese are making electric cars. Not only that. They're hoping to have them on the U.S. market in a couple of years.
I guess you haven't watched the video I posted in this thread.
I wonder if the car manufacturers are in bed with the big oil companies? I've heard in two lectures that the car companies have made almost no progress in mileage (on gas cars). |
That's true, in 20 years the technology has NOT improved on these cars because the government regulations are paid off to stay the same. There is NO motivation for the company to make more effiecient cars so they don't |
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