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I'm not from your country but I know more about it than you
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The Gipkik



Joined: 30 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seoulio wrote:


Good and bad is subjective now is it?

So If an American policy all but bankrupts a foreign government, that's would be subjective eh?

You can give me there are two side of every story ( a bad outcome for a foreign country, but great for Americans could make a good and bad argument subjective. in that context) but bad things happening to "others" is a BAd outcome


Actually, good and bad ARE subjective. There is nothing innately good or bad about good and bad. They are value judgments. However, examples of what I think or you think are good and bad may or may not be as subjective. Your example is still subjective, though. I suspect bankrupting a foreign government would be a good thing for "some" people and some very personal outcomes--just not the people or outcomes we might believe are "good" people or outcomes!
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Seoulio



Joined: 02 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay I am not talking about self centered goods.

When you bankrupt an economy that would be bad
If you kill a sweet old lady on purpose that would be bad
if you have sex with a baby thats bad

Please dont tell me that there are no such things as good or bad, unless you are mentally retarded or insane there are some universal goods and bad. I am NOT Talking about the subjective ones.
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The Gipkik



Joined: 30 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seoulio wrote:

Please dont tell me that there are no such things as good or bad, unless you are mentally retarded or insane there are some universal goods and bad. I am NOT Talking about the subjective ones.



Personally, I think your examples transcend good and bad. They are outrageous. Good and bad don't do the crimes justice. But, from a utilitarian perspective, they are bad because they damage a human population, create negative consequences that have long term ramifications. Now that is bad.

But humans can be an extremely bad lot. A lot of extremely evil stuff has been done that has had little impact on the force of humanity. Millions have lived senseless lives and died senseless deaths. And the world goes on with more and more people clamoring for the good life. There aren't many absolutes.
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Smee



Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard plenty about the US from Korean students and co-teachers who spent a week in LA's Koreatown, if they've even visited at all.

Then again, I've met and listened to plenty of expats in South Korea who act like this:

http://dokdoisours.blogspot.com/2010/07/after-three-months-in-korea-canadian.html
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love to be lectured by Canadians about America. Especiallly ones who have gained their knowledge through Hollywood or watching t.v. They delight me . the idea that there are people on earth this stupid who can still walk and feed themselves just amazes me. But so it goes. I understand that you Think you understand the U.S. and you get angry when Americans tell you you dont really have any idea about what you are talking about. It is so much fun to bait you . It gives me amusement . The seals well they were there first!
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Seoulio



Joined: 02 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
Love to be lectured by Canadians about America. Especiallly ones who have gained their knowledge through Hollywood or watching t.v. They delight me . the idea that there are people on earth this stupid who can still walk and feed themselves just amazes me. But so it goes. I understand that you Think you understand the U.S. and you get angry when Americans tell you you dont really have any idea about what you are talking about. It is so much fun to bait you . It gives me amusement . The seals well they were there first!


Where exactly does an American get thier knowledge of America from? Going out on a limb here and saying "hollywood and T.V" oh wait, and now the internet too.

Not sure if you are talking about me in there, but I don't lecture to American's I don't think there is an American alive that is ignorant of your countries social, economic, governmental, and global policy problems, but to suggest that somone not "blessed" with living in your country is ignorant of any or all of these things is absurd.

But by your own admission you are not really interested in a discussion, you are interested in "baiting" us.
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Underwaterbob



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love how Americans rail against the seal hunt in Canada. As a wise friend of mine once stated: "A model in Hollywood bats her eyelashes, and ten thousand impoverished Newfies lose their jobs."
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully seal hunting will die out on its own. From what I have seen most newfies are teaching english in Asia.My favorite Canadian ,Charlton a newfie, took a three month trip through the United states after he graduated from college. he told me that he was totally surprised by the people and the wide variations in culture. He really liked the u.s. but he was a very positive likeable person. I have traveled to Canada numerous times, lived witha a very nice woman from Vancouver, have read books about Canada, listened to Canadian radio, met many many Canadians and I would feel like an idiot to say that i understand Canada. I am just dumbfounded at people who read an internet article on a subject or see a silly movie and think they have gained real knowledge of a topic. The U.s. is not always easy to like even for Ameicans , it is rough, with lots of crazies, it has so many waves variations textures to it. Its a big mess. Cangratualations to those who can read a book or watch a t.v. show or learn some statistics and think they have a great knowledge about it. Most of us in the States havent a clue. Now Romania I know more about it than any Romanian alive.
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mc_jc



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So your question is, 'is it possible for a non-resident to know more regarding ANYTHING AT ALL about a given country, than a resident of that country'?


It depends on how much the residents are in denial.

Sometimes the best people to know about a certain place are people not born there or who've not resided there very long. The longer an outsider observes something, the more of a pattern develops for them.
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rabidcake



Joined: 10 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. BlackCat wrote:
Seoulio wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
Seoulio wrote:
nukeday wrote:
Your use of terms like "good and bad" and "negative impact on the world" are completely subjective. You knew that, though, right?

It's basically impossible to be objective on America for you and a lot of other people. It's one of those love-or-hate issues.

Like I said, you can pretend to be objective when you speak about Belgium.


Good and bad is subjective now is it?

So If an American policy all but bankrupts a foreign government, that's would be subjective eh?

You can give me there are two side of every story ( a bad outcome for a foreign country, but great for Americans could make a good and bad argument subjective. in that context) but bad things happening to "others" is a BAd outcome



You are proof about the whole axe to grind thing plus the stereotypical know-it-all Canadian that gives your country a bad name.

And yes, it is subjective.


never heard the "know it all" Canadian stereotype

I have no axe to grind,

NOt really subjective


Unfortunately anytime anyone outside the US dares to have an opinion, especially one backed up by fact, they are called know-it-alls, smug and/or anti-American. The fact is, the US is a really great country with some flaws but because it's the world's only superpower the great part is assumed and the flaws are investigated. However, inside the US people are constantly told that they are number one at everything so many Americans tend to think it's heresy for anyone else to suggest otherwise, even if they claim they're open minded. For example, a recent poll found that the majority of Americans believe they give more than 5% of GDP in foreign aid when in reality it's less than 1% (sorry, I can't find it right now, I'm between classes). The real number is not that different from other industrialized nations so it's not like they should be ashamed or anything. But at least a dozen times I have corrected American friends who have stated the exaggerated number only to be told that I am wrong and anti-American. And these are left-leaning liberal college educated travellers. Another example is the American belief that immigrants only want to go to the US and no other country ("Only in America") and that they want to go there for their 'freedoms' instead of simply for money (which isn't a bad thing, it's an indication of how good the country is, just in a different more complex way).

I'm not saying that all Canadians know more about the US than all Americans, I'm saying that it is very possible for a Canadian to be much more aware of the context than an American. I've had discussions with Americans about their elections and in the end I've been told to mind my own business. Ok, I'll do that as soon as your elected presidents stop invading other countries and destablizing the global economy. If you want to be the most powerful country in the world then you're going to have to deal with the impact you have on others. You can't have your cake (ie cheapest gas prices outside the Gulf states) and eat it too (be exempt from foreign criticism for how you get those low prices). The fact remains Americans can be just as critical of other countries if they choose to learn about them, as some do. The thing is, when many of my American friends try to flip it on me and criticize Canada they simply just don't know enough to do it. There are many problems in Canada and I wouldn't mind hearing different (educated) perspectives on them. Really, though, it just boils down to the age old, "Yeah, well, no one cares about your country!!" Well, fine. How does that prevent me from understanding yours?

We're all citizens of the world and we all have a right to hold opinions. I don't see how being born and raised in one country makes you naturally understand it better than studying it from afar. I have read dozens of books about American history, foreign policy, economics and society. I might not know my way around town or why Two and Half Men is the #1 TV show, but I sure do know more about the country than many of the Americans (and Canadians, and Euros, and Koreans, etc.) I've met. I think the US is a great country and has the power to do real good things in the world, that's why I care.


You must have either not spoken to many Americans or have just had bad luck with the type of people you are communicating with.

The truth is, Americans are thought of as not knowing what's going on. This is sometimes the case, and sometimes isn't. It really just depends on the person.

The United States is crucial to the world in both positive and negative ways. It's obvious why people learn English and learn about American customs and history.

Canada is not as important in terms of economics and global influence.

I too admit that I don't know much about Canada, but I do know tons and tons about Taiwan, a place most people confuse with Thailand. Reading books about Taiwan and actually living there is very very different.

But alas, we Americans always look bad no matter where we are on the world stage (or in our own country).
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Seoulio



Joined: 02 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And thats pretty much a universal constant. Some people know more than others, you dont have to be an American or live in America to understand America. YOU don't have to be an American to know more about America than the average American. And often times an outsider can more objectively view America.

And if we happen to have this knowledge or awareness many Americans will shoot us down because our knowledge comes from "TV" or "films" forgetting the fact that there are also these things called books that many of us read. ( and that MOSt of an Americans awareness comes from these same 3 sources)

Course if the people criticising us are the same ones who gave George BUsh a Second term, I am fairly confident I don't need to live in America to be intelligent about it when there are many who live there and are not.
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rabidcake



Joined: 10 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seoulio wrote:
And thats pretty much a universal constant. Some people know more than others, you dont have to be an American or live in America to understand America. YOU don't have to be an American to know more about America than the average American. And often times an outsider can more objectively view America.

And if we happen to have this knowledge or awareness many Americans will shoot us down because our knowledge comes from "TV" or "films" forgetting the fact that there are also these things called books that many of us read. ( and that MOSt of an Americans awareness comes from these same 3 sources)

Course if the people criticising us are the same ones who gave George BUsh a Second term, I am fairly confident I don't need to live in America to be intelligent about it when there are many who live there and are not.


Yes, but why would a book be more accurate than a film? It really depends on what book you read or movie you watch.

Either way, I think it's fair to say that it is very difficult to understand a country in the cultural context without having lived there for some time. In the end, you can't really comment on how life is like in a different country without having lived there (or at least visited).
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Seoulio



Joined: 02 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabidcake wrote:
Seoulio wrote:
And thats pretty much a universal constant. Some people know more than others, you dont have to be an American or live in America to understand America. YOU don't have to be an American to know more about America than the average American. And often times an outsider can more objectively view America.

And if we happen to have this knowledge or awareness many Americans will shoot us down because our knowledge comes from "TV" or "films" forgetting the fact that there are also these things called books that many of us read. ( and that MOSt of an Americans awareness comes from these same 3 sources)

Course if the people criticising us are the same ones who gave George BUsh a Second term, I am fairly confident I don't need to live in America to be intelligent about it when there are many who live there and are not.


Yes, but why would a book be more accurate than a film? It really depends on what book you read or movie you watch.

Either way, I think it's fair to say that it is very difficult to understand a country in the cultural context without having lived there for some time. In the end, you can't really comment on how life is like in a different country without having lived there (or at least visited).



books vs movies I agree with you.

Living there to understand I don't Smile ( however I have travelled there quite a bit)
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itaewonguy



Joined: 25 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tigerstyleone wrote:
What do you guys know about Thailand?


I know that Thailand is a great place and I always leave smiling!
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Young FRANKenstein



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: I'm not from your country but I know more about it than Reply with quote

jmuns wrote:
unless you have lived there for more than say 3-5 years can you really know?

How long must one live in a place before one "knows everything" about living there?
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