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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| You may be right, but what I see is when Israel attacks their neighbours, there is justification. When Israel is attacked, there are screams of 'anti-semitism' and 'terrorism'. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:20 am Post subject: |
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I am not screaming antisemitism. personally I never heard a single person claim that in my country.
I just feel that the media does seem to show a bias on certain issues and states.
I believe the media should just report the facts - let us the readers read into it our own prejudices.
Yet, what I have read except from Israel has done less to present the basic facts and more to state a position they already believe in. Try Robert Fisks article on the issue and he should be an expert on the region by now.
Though BBC isn't innocent either in its manipulation. (when you discuss an issue by Israel then show old footage of another attack years ago, the question should be asked "what are you selling and why?" |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:17 am Post subject: |
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From the first link.
"Clashes erupted when Israeli troops tried to cut down a tree that both sides claimed was in their territory.
Four people - including two Lebanese soldiers, a Lebanese journalist and an Israeli officer - were killed."
Sounds like Israeli provocation to me. Notice that both sides claimed it, so they had to know something would happen. Lebanon reacted to a nation crossing over to it's territory. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
From the first link.
"Clashes erupted when Israeli troops tried to cut down a tree that both sides claimed was in their territory.
Four people - including two Lebanese soldiers, a Lebanese journalist and an Israeli officer - were killed."
Sounds like Israeli provocation to me. Notice that both sides claimed it, so they had to know something would happen. Lebanon reacted to a nation crossing over to it's territory. |
http://mondoweiss.net/2010/08/congressman-threatens-cut-off-in-aid-to-lebanon-after-border-attack.html
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Why do they hate us? Recall that in 2006, the Israelis reduced portions of Beirut to rubble and killed hundreds of civilians in southern Lebanon. And of course hundred of Gazan children in 2008-2009. And on each occasion, the U.S. stood by.
Well: the Lebanese killed an Israeli reservist officer two days back during a skirmish along the border between the countries, and JTA reports that a member of congressional delegation in Israel has now threatened to cut off aid to Lebanon. Ron Klein represents Boca Raton and Palm Beach:
Since Lebanon apparently attacked Israeli soldiers first, Klein said the Congress may be hesitant to continue to provide aid to the country.
If it turns out that the Lebanese government authorized the attack, �a lot of members [of Congress] will be very concerned about offering continued support for Lebanon,� he said.
Oh and here is Klein bragging to the Jerusalem Post that he looked Obama in the eye over his Israel/Palestine policy, which must never never be politicized:
�In our meeting at the White House, I said � face to face like I�m talking to you � �I don�t agree with your position, we need to change it.�� Klein said that while it was clear disagreements between Israel and the US were inevitable, when the disagreements emerge, �you do it as friends, close friends, like a family.
There are things you say publicly, and things you say behind the scenes. You don�t give your enemies the opportunity to exploit differences between the US and Israel. That is where I think President Obama made his mistake.� |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Not to mention Israel's actions during the Lebanon civil war, including shaba and shatila. Ariel Sharon oversaw the massacre of Shaba and Shatila, one of the most shameful acts committed in war in recent history, and the Israeli's elected him to be their prime minister. It's astounding. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Sounds like Israeli provocation to me. Notice that both sides claimed it, so they had to know something would happen. Lebanon reacted to a nation crossing over to it's territory. |
The Israelis were over the security fence yet behind the UN demarcated Blue Line
http://www.honestreporting.com/articles... |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Sounds like Israeli provocation to me. Notice that both sides claimed it, so they had to know something would happen. Lebanon reacted to a nation crossing over to it's territory. |
The Israelis were over the security fence yet behind the UN demarcated Blue Line
http://www.honestreporting.com/articles... |
It looks like you're right. I could see how the Lebanese would be uncomfortable with Israelis so near their borders seeing as how Israel has shown no respect for Lebanon's sovereignty in the past. Hopefully this is some small thing that won't escalate. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:17 am Post subject:
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From the first link.
"Clashes erupted when Israeli troops tried to cut down a tree that both sides claimed was in their territory.
Four people - including two Lebanese soldiers, a Lebanese journalist and an Israeli officer - were killed."
Sounds like Israeli provocation to me. Notice that both sides claimed it, so they had to know something would happen. Lebanon reacted to a nation crossing over to it's territory. |
Leon, Now I understand why the papers write the way they do. They write to the converted.
Thats just sad.  |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Quote: |
Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:17 am Post subject:
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From the first link.
"Clashes erupted when Israeli troops tried to cut down a tree that both sides claimed was in their territory.
Four people - including two Lebanese soldiers, a Lebanese journalist and an Israeli officer - were killed."
Sounds like Israeli provocation to me. Notice that both sides claimed it, so they had to know something would happen. Lebanon reacted to a nation crossing over to it's territory. |
Leon, Now I understand why the papers write the way they do. They write to the converted.
Thats just sad. |
From the way the article was worded, that's what it sounded like. After I read the other one I saw that my initial assessment was wrong, and said as much. The converted? What are you talking about? Whats your view on Israeli foreign policy, and what do you base it on? Converted, as opposed to what, an apologist? Did one need to be "converted" to be critical of Apartheid South Africa? This isn't really a huge story, they are having talks and hopefully it won't amount to anything. The media didn't report it as widely because the Lebanon military attacking another military is a rare event, whereas Israeli aggression against civilians is systematic. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Lebanon was aware that Israelis were within their rights to do what they did according to UN boarders. The members of the media are also aware of the above (or should be if they genuinely want to participate in the reporting of international affairs). This story was reported in a far less straightforward and honest fashion than it should have been. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| The converted? What are you talking about? Whats your view on Israeli foreign policy, and what do you base it on? Converted, as opposed to what, an apologist? |
Israeli foriegn Policy - well, thats a difficult issue I guess. I am glad that they have one, I mean my grandfather never imagined a state of Israel when he was fighting in WW2.
Though he probably never imagined an Indonesian, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Singaporean or Taiwanese one either.
The current one? Well it doesn't seem to have really changed in any major way since its original conception. That might be its problem, the world has changed. It focuses on the issue of 'never again will a Jew walk willingly into a gas chamber or the State of Israel into non existence'.
The word, Apologist seems to make the accusation that they support Israel regardless and Converted seems to make the point that they support the irradication of Israel. So I must make an apology if you don't support violence against Israel.
Other than that, well I am a contridiction in terms - I support the right of Israel to exist as a predominantly Jewish nation (the only one in the world today), yet I don't support all the actions that they carry out to ensure that position.
Though would I vote in the favour of an ending of the state of Israel? Well not without every other country that was created by the UN or the five powers also being removed from Global affairs based on the basis that it was also created by them.
(post editted) |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Though would I vote in the favour of an ending of the state of Israel? Well not without every other country that was created by the UN or the five powers also being removed from Global affairs based on the basis that it was also created by them. |
Yes, because their governments all behave identically. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:13 am Post subject: |
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Summer Wine wrote:
Though would I vote in the favour of an ending of the state of Israel? Well not without every other country that was created by the UN or the five powers also being removed from Global affairs based on the basis that it was also created by them.
Yes, because their governments all behave identically.
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No they dont.
But, if you ask the malay and Indian Singaporeans, they are treated as second class citizens.
If you ask the Chinese/Indian Malaysians, they have the same complaint.
If you ask the Papuans, then Indonesia is not so lovey/dovey
If you ask the hill people/montagnards of Vietnam, they also feel the love is lacking.
Though, some of those would probably be in the same situation with weapons, money like the Palestinians if the rest of the world gave a damm.
But they aren't, so they are just the oppressed. But hey, if a Jew kills some one its world news. If not, then its tissue.
So what am I missing? Israel commits more global crimes than any other nation? Or they don't have many other Jewish nations to provide support?
Papua only has PNG to support it and they haven't since the 1980s when Indonesia flew Jet aircraft over thier capital city to make clear to them that Indonesia would invade them if they did.
The world is a complicated place, there are more issues in the world than just Israel. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
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Summer Wine wrote:
Though would I vote in the favour of an ending of the state of Israel? Well not without every other country that was created by the UN or the five powers also being removed from Global affairs based on the basis that it was also created by them.
Yes, because their governments all behave identically.
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No they dont.
But, if you ask the malay and Indian Singaporeans, they are treated as second class citizens. |
What evidence do you have of this? I've lived and Singapore and worked with Chinese, Malay and Indian Singaporeans. I never saw anything like this. Singaporean laws are pretty strict when it comes to issues dealing with racism.
Last edited by Leon on Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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