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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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 Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
I believe the media should just report the facts - let us the readers read into it our own prejudices. |
Agreed, but the reality is that the media, political parties and people are driven by certain biases...which newspapers get money to justify. Its just human nature. Negativity draws more emotional response than positivity.
Also certain countries are more open to the foreign press than others. Therefore they get more attention. A massacre in Darfur is of far less interest than someone farting in Tel Aviv. In this way the media develops pet issues based along cultural lines.
Nobody cares if 1000 people die in Bangladesh. It has no cultural reference. But Israel is related to the world.
In theory the media watchdogs and government bodies should be regulating the media to ensure fairness and quality. Bottom line is though profits are what count. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Quote: |
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Summer Wine wrote:
Though would I vote in the favour of an ending of the state of Israel? Well not without every other country that was created by the UN or the five powers also being removed from Global affairs based on the basis that it was also created by them.
Yes, because their governments all behave identically.
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No they dont.
But, if you ask the malay and Indian Singaporeans, they are treated as second class citizens. |
What evidence do you have of this? I've lived and Singapore and worked with Chinese, Malay and Indian Singaporeans. I never saw anything like this. Singaporean laws are pretty strict when it comes to issues dealing with racism. |
yes, i also hold your skepticism on this claim. On othe other hand, Indians in Malaysia certainly are looked down on by the Chinese and Malays. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Malay in SG are similar to blacks in the US. Same rights but totally different class. The Chinese do look down on them. The call the females fuc%ing minah. It is not a harmonious society. It is a peaceful society. The Malay are not integrated fully into the military either. They do "civic defense" and not army, generally, for National Service. LKY has said some very shocking things about them. The Indians are different and don't really register either way for most Chinese Singaporeans. They seem indifferent to them. In every company the pee-ons are Malay, Tamil and lower class Chinese. The farther up you go the more Chinese it gets. The firm I worked for didn't even have a Malay secretary. All Chinese and Caucasian. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Malay in SG are similar to blacks in the US. Same rights but totally different class. The Chinese do look down on them. The call the females fuc%ing minah. It is not a harmonious society. It is a peaceful society. The Malay are not integrated fully into the military either. They do "civic defense" and not army, generally, for National Service. LKY has said some very shocking things about them. The Indians are different and don't really register either way for most Chinese Singaporeans. They seem indifferent to them. In every company the pee-ons are Malay, Tamil and lower class Chinese. The farther up you go the more Chinese it gets. The firm I worked for didn't even have a Malay secretary. All Chinese and Caucasian. |
Again I have to disagree. Where I worked my immediate boss was Malay and his boss was Indian. Granted the owner was Chinese, but I never encountered racism towards Malays. They were fairly racist when it came to workers from China, but that was about all I saw. I had mixed group of friends while I was there and never noticed anybody being treated differently. Not saying that there isn't any, but I don't think it was an overwhelming issue. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Malay in SG are similar to blacks in the US. Same rights but totally different class. The Chinese do look down on them. The call the females fuc%ing minah. It is not a harmonious society. It is a peaceful society. The Malay are not integrated fully into the military either. They do "civic defense" and not army, generally, for National Service. LKY has said some very shocking things about them. The Indians are different and don't really register either way for most Chinese Singaporeans. They seem indifferent to them. In every company the pee-ons are Malay, Tamil and lower class Chinese. The farther up you go the more Chinese it gets. The firm I worked for didn't even have a Malay secretary. All Chinese and Caucasian. |
Again I have to disagree. Where I worked my immediate boss was Malay and his boss was Indian. Granted the owner was Chinese, but I never encountered racism towards Malays. They were fairly racist when it came to workers from China, but that was about all I saw. I had mixed group of friends while I was there and never noticed anybody being treated differently. Not saying that there isn't any, but I don't think it was an overwhelming issue. |
The Malay are treated differently. Did your friends discuss NS? Malay's pull cats from trees and Chinese learn how to fire guns in the army. The army claims it will begin training Malay's as fighter pilots soon as there has been a prohibition on them learning this skill in the military in the past. I don't know it they've already started. Malay are also (this may have changed in the past 2-3 years) kept out of military intelligence, and the navy. The state also approves sermons in Mosques. It isn't what it seems dude.
What kind of company did you work for? A Malay boss of any importance outside of the government is something I never came across. We worked with dozens of local companies. I never saw it. If you were in an integrated setting you won't hear the real feelings as to express them would be against the law. It was in groups of only Chinese that they were honest. They don't much like the woman-stealing ang moh either (especially the ones who hang out @ Attica). Next time you're there head down to the financial district. Count the Malay's in suits. Head to a fast food joint and count the Chinese single moms. The two groups lead vastly different lives. It is all held together in the only way it can be held together. The state is extremely powerful and actively intervenes. Even small private disputes in housing estates, if inter racial, will gather government attention and direction. Better yet, go to NTU or NUS campus and count the Malay students. Singapore has the very best PR and propaganda in the world. They cover up all problems extremely well. There is a unified Singaporean identity and the Malay's in SG apparently do not feel Malaysian. Which is a good thing. The bottom line is that Singapore is a Chinese society that benefits the elite of the Chinese demographic (upper 50% say). It is almost Chinese-supremacist, as seen in the �Speak Mandarin Campaign'. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Malay in SG are similar to blacks in the US. Same rights but totally different class. The Chinese do look down on them. The call the females fuc%ing minah. It is not a harmonious society. It is a peaceful society. The Malay are not integrated fully into the military either. They do "civic defense" and not army, generally, for National Service. LKY has said some very shocking things about them. The Indians are different and don't really register either way for most Chinese Singaporeans. They seem indifferent to them. In every company the pee-ons are Malay, Tamil and lower class Chinese. The farther up you go the more Chinese it gets. The firm I worked for didn't even have a Malay secretary. All Chinese and Caucasian. |
Again I have to disagree. Where I worked my immediate boss was Malay and his boss was Indian. Granted the owner was Chinese, but I never encountered racism towards Malays. They were fairly racist when it came to workers from China, but that was about all I saw. I had mixed group of friends while I was there and never noticed anybody being treated differently. Not saying that there isn't any, but I don't think it was an overwhelming issue. |
The Malay are treated differently. Did your friends discuss NS? Malay's pull cats from trees and Chinese learn how to fire guns in the army. The army claims it will begin training Malay's as fighter pilots soon as there has been a prohibition on them learning this skill in the military in the past. I don't know it they've already started. Malay are also (this may have changed in the past 2-3 years) kept out of military intelligence, and the navy. The state also approves sermons in Mosques. It isn't what it seems dude. |
I feel pretty certain that the Malays I knew that were in NS were in the army. I was there about a year ago, so maybe I was there more recently and it has started to change, I don't know.
| mises wrote: |
| What kind of company did you work for? A Malay boss of any importance outside of the government is something I never came across. We worked with dozens of local companies. I never saw it. If you were in an integrated setting you won't hear the real feelings as to express them would be against the law. It was in groups of only Chinese that they were honest. They don't much like the woman-stealing ang moh either (especially the ones who hang out @ Attica). Next time you're there head down to the financial district. Count the Malay's in suits. Head to a fast food joint and count the Chinese single moms. The two groups lead vastly different lives. It is all held together in the only way it can be held together. The state is extremely powerful and actively intervenes. Even small private disputes in housing estates, if inter racial, will gather government attention and direction. Better yet, go to NTU or NUS campus and count the Malay students. Singapore has the very best PR and propaganda in the world. They cover up all problems extremely well. There is a unified Singaporean identity and the Malay's in SG apparently do not feel Malaysian. Which is a good thing. The bottom line is that Singapore is a Chinese society that benefits the elite of the Chinese demographic (upper 50% say). It is almost Chinese-supremacist, as seen in the �Speak Mandarin Campaign'. |
I worked for a company called focus adventures. We led team building retreats for corporations. I'm actually inclined to agree with you after reading this post. Our clients were all executives or high level managers, lots of our programs took place at 5 star resorts in Bintan Indonesia so they weren't cheap, and I can't say that I ever worked with a Malay client except when we did some discounted community day type things. Anyways it's still completely different than Israel and Palestine. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| [Anyways it's still completely different than Israel and Palestine. |
Being that Singapore is ONE state and that Israel and Palestine are two then yes it would be. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| [Anyways it's still completely different than Israel and Palestine. |
Being that Singapore is ONE state and that Israel and Palestine are two then yes it would be. |
Palestine's a state? Anyways while there is racial discrimination in Singapore it isn't any worse than racial discrimination in America or any other developed nation. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| [Anyways it's still completely different than Israel and Palestine. |
Being that Singapore is ONE state and that Israel and Palestine are two then yes it would be. |
Palestine's a state? . |
According to wiki yes. Google "state of Palestine". Although in reality it's apparently more of a political term than anything else...in spite of the fact that some countries have recognized it. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| [Anyways it's still completely different than Israel and Palestine. |
Being that Singapore is ONE state and that Israel and Palestine are two then yes it would be. |
Palestine's a state? . |
According to wiki yes. Google "state of Palestine". Although in reality it's apparently more of a political term than anything else...in spite of the fact that some countries have recognized it. |
It's not. It could be argued that it is a nation, but definitely not a state. That's what they both want, but it's a long way off. The PLO declared Palestine a state, but that was just political maneuvering, just as some states "recognizing" it. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| [Anyways it's still completely different than Israel and Palestine. |
Being that Singapore is ONE state and that Israel and Palestine are two then yes it would be. |
Palestine's a state? . |
According to wiki yes. Google "state of Palestine". Although in reality it's apparently more of a political term than anything else...in spite of the fact that some countries have recognized it. |
It's not. It could be argued that it is a nation, but definitely not a state. That's what they both want, but it's a long way off. The PLO declared Palestine a state, but that was just political maneuvering, just as some states "recognizing" it. |
Isn't that what I just said above?
Nevertheless I referred to it as a "state" (regardless of the technical issues surrounding the nomenclature) as that is the name it goes under.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| [Anyways it's still completely different than Israel and Palestine. |
Being that Singapore is ONE state and that Israel and Palestine are two then yes it would be. |
Palestine's a state? . |
According to wiki yes. Google "state of Palestine". Although in reality it's apparently more of a political term than anything else...in spite of the fact that some countries have recognized it. |
It's not. It could be argued that it is a nation, but definitely not a state. That's what they both want, but it's a long way off. The PLO declared Palestine a state, but that was just political maneuvering, just as some states "recognizing" it. |
Isn't that what I just said above? |
Yes, I was agreeing with you, don't act so surprised. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| [Anyways it's still completely different than Israel and Palestine. |
Being that Singapore is ONE state and that Israel and Palestine are two then yes it would be. |
Palestine's a state? . |
According to wiki yes. Google "state of Palestine". Although in reality it's apparently more of a political term than anything else...in spite of the fact that some countries have recognized it. |
It's not. It could be argued that it is a nation, but definitely not a state. That's what they both want, but it's a long way off. The PLO declared Palestine a state, but that was just political maneuvering, just as some states "recognizing" it. |
Isn't that what I just said above? |
Yes, I was agreeing with you, don't act so surprised. |
Okay, sorry...I thought you were under the impression that I was disagreeing...just thought I'd clarify. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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The United States is pro-Israeli, not anti-Israeli, and so is the media.
There are claims that there is so much anti-Israeli bias, but AIPAC is a foreign lobby, but is not labeled as such, though in the past it's original organization was forced to identify as such. Arabs can go to jail if money somehow goes to Hamas even if it entails helping a hospital, but if Jews use the tax code to send money to settlements in violation of international law, nothing is done.
Israel is an occupying power that has 10,000 plus Palestinians in jail, but
one Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, is treated with more importance in the media than the 10,000, which includes minors who have never had a trial. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Leon wrote:
Summer Wine wrote:
Quote:
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Summer Wine wrote:
Though would I vote in the favour of an ending of the state of Israel? Well not without every other country that was created by the UN or the five powers also being removed from Global affairs based on the basis that it was also created by them.
Yes, because their governments all behave identically.
No they dont.
But, if you ask the malay and Indian Singaporeans, they are treated as second class citizens.
What evidence do you have of this? I've lived and Singapore and worked with Chinese, Malay and Indian Singaporeans. I never saw anything like this. Singaporean laws are pretty strict when it comes to issues dealing with racism.
yes, i also hold your skepticism on this claim. On othe other hand, Indians in Malaysia certainly are looked down on by the Chinese and Malays. |
Ok, I spoke with a few outside the country. Certain topics came up. Has Singapore changed? Quite probably.
Though when I spoke with aquaintances, certain issues came out. They seem to be supported by both sides of the argument at times.
One particular one was that the military had certain levels, and the malays and Indians were never allowed above a certain level.
That while they had to do military service, they were treated as second rate and not given full acceptance.
Is it everyone? Probably not. Though does it exist, from the number of people I listened to or just overheard bitching about the issue, then it did.
Does it today? Who is to say, the world is changing fast. |
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