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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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 Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| If you're going to contribute to an English speakers' forum, why not write your posts entirely in English, so people who can't understand Korean can enjoy them too. |
You live in Korea. The least you can do is learn how to READ Korean. It's SO difficult to devote three hours to learning it, too. Now hit the books, whingey. |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| If you're going to contribute to an English speakers' forum, why not write your posts entirely in English, so people who can't understand Korean can enjoy them too. |
You live in Korea. The least you can do is learn how to READ Korean. It's SO difficult to devote three hours to learning it, too. Now hit the books, whingey. |
And if you are to lazy for that then
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&langpair=ko%7Cen# |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You live in Korea. The least you can do is learn how to READ Korean. |
You post on these forums, the least you can do is learn how to READ the posts you are replying to. I said I could read Korean, that wasn't my point. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| But it takes me about three times as long as it does to read English words so I didn't bother. My point was why does anyone on here ever have to write anything in hangul? It's not necessary |
First off it it takes 3 times as long to read hangul that ups the time from 1/3rd of a second to a full second, not much of an inconvenience.
And as for it being necessary, the Sinchon example shows how it IS necessary to type in Hangul. Not everyone follows the same romanization system.
Sure for some things it doesn't make much of a difference, for others its ALL the difference. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Sinchon (near Yonsei) and Sinchon (near Jamsil) |
Umm. Didn't you just manage to explain the difference between these two places quite easily without using Hangul? Like I said, it's not necessary |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Sinchon (near Yonsei) and Sinchon (near Jamsil) |
Umm. Didn't you just manage to explain the difference between these two places quite easily without using Hangul? Like I said, it's not necessary |
If he's trying to save time, though, he can just push the Hangeul button and type it in Korean. The method above requires parentheses and two separate English words each, therefore taking up to 2 seconds longer to type. Seconds add up! |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Sinchon (near Yonsei) and Sinchon (near Jamsil) |
Umm. Didn't you just manage to explain the difference between these two places quite easily without using Hangul? Like I said, it's not necessary |
But if I used hangul I wouldn't have to add (near Yonsei) and (near Jamsil). You would already know because they are spelled differently in Korean. The explanation is unnecessary. It only becomes necessary when you use Roman letters, not Hangul.
Remember this is me remembering to point out the difference. Another poster might assume you know.
In fact once you reach a certain level of proficiency with Hangul/Korean, Romanization actually makes things more confusing. Just because something is more difficult for you or that you don't understand it doesn't make it stupid and unnecessary.
I mean what's next? Someone complaining that I shouldn't write them e-mails because "reading is too hard" and I should just call them on the phone? "We don't have that book readin here! Only oral tradition!!!" |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I mean what's next? Someone complaining that I shouldn't write them e-mails because "reading is too hard" and I should just call them on the phone? "We don't have that book readin here! Only oral tradition!!!" |
Yes, if you had an elderly relative who couldn't see very well, what's wrong with them asking people to phone instead of email? I communicate with my GF much more on MSN because she's more confident on that than speaking on the phone. Some people look at this forum who can't read Hangul. They might not even be in Korea, they might never come to Korea. My point was just to have a bit of consideration for them and use English, or at least translate any terms in the post. What's so unacceptable about that? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I mean what's next? Someone complaining that I shouldn't write them e-mails because "reading is too hard" and I should just call them on the phone? "We don't have that book readin here! Only oral tradition!!!" |
Yes, if you had an elderly relative who couldn't see very well, what's wrong with them asking people to phone instead of email? I communicate with my GF much more on MSN because she's more confident on that than speaking on the phone. Some people look at this forum who can't read Hangul. They might not even be in Korea, they might never come to Korea. My point was just to have a bit of consideration for them and use English, or at least translate any terms in the post. What's so unacceptable about that? |
Well put that way, of course its sensible.
But you said this:
| Quote: |
| My point was why does anyone on here ever have to write anything in hangul? It's not necessary |
I think its pretty clear why it is necessary. If you don't write it hangul, you get mix-ups pure and simple. Hangul=No mixups.
That and-
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&langpair=ko%7Cen#
I agree that it IS courteous to provide a translation, but not learning how to read is a sign of pure intellectual laziness and I'm not going to dumb myself down to deal with it. I am free to communicate in any language I feel like. Of course plenty of us are new arrivals and as a courtesy its nice to throw out translations and such.
I mean this reminds me of the people who stare at a menu at a fine Italian restaurant and cannot understand what is being served because its in Italian. Fine, ma'am, I can go open you a can of Chef Boyardee. At some point the dumbing down of society reaches a limit with me. The Korean thing on this forum does not cross that limit, but it does come to the limits precipice. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| So now you can't tolerate people who don't understand a menu written entirely in Italian. You're coming across as a bit of a snob. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| oldfatfarang wrote: |
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Koreans believe foreigners are 'outsiders', a point that was graphically brought home to me once when a Korean market seller chased me through the Busan market yelling: "Outsider"!
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What bought the point to you that because one person did or said something that everyone else of the same genotype must think and act the same way? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| So now you can't tolerate people who don't understand a menu written entirely in Italian. You're coming across as a bit of a snob. |
Do you prefer penne or "pen" pasta? Fettuccini or "little ribbons" pasta? You know what they say about being in Rome? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| So now you can't tolerate people who don't understand a menu written entirely in Italian. You're coming across as a bit of a snob. |
If they are dining at a fine Italian Restaurant, yes. I wouldn't mind if I was eating at the (eww) Onion Garden or (yum) Wiseguy's Pizza & Pasta & Beer.
I don't have a problem with people who can't understand the menu at a fine restaurant. I have a problem with people who can't understand the menu and get upset about it.
Anyways catflap, the case has been clearly made about the necessity for using hangul over romanization. You are correct that it would be courteous of people to provide a translation. At the same time some things are pretty basic that are being written and there is always google translate. In the end I think anyone who is that bent out of shape about it can come across as intellectually lazy. There are things called dictionaries. It's good to practice your Korean while you are in Korea, not to mention the amount of time it takes to figure out the hangul is the difference between 1 second and 2. Not a major inconvenience.
Now showing up at the Jamsil Sinchon vs. the Yonsei Sinchon. Major inconvenience and at the very least 1 hours lost time. Again, a situation that does not happen if you use Hangul, but as posters' testimonies indicate, does happen if you follow the romanization.
Oh how I wish I could type hangul on this comp... |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| Eh. You do know that in Korean, the word foreigner has no negative connotation behind it and that it is just a descriptor, right? |
That may be true, but we're not talking about the Korean word for "foreigner". We're talking about the English word, and its synonyms and connotations. |
But the meaning of the word in English has nothing to do with the meaning of wayguk in Korean. Foreigner was just chosen as it was the english word that best represented what wayguk means.
외국인 has no negative connotation. All it means is that the person is not from here (here being Korea).
The ony people that are including a negative connotation are foreigners themselves as they assume Foreigner means bad or inferior to something. For Koreans, thats not the meaning at all.
As for 한국어 (korean) you are always better off writing it out using 한글.
Romanization warps meaning and leads to bad pronounciation and outright mistakes. So leaning 한글 is just a smart move and it does not take long.
Simple benefits would be: reading a menu, reading the destination on buses in smaller cities (where English is not always present), better pronounciation (fewer mistakes, getting understood better), reading basic documents (at least figure out what they are about).... |
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