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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
As for 한국어 (korean) you are always better off writing it out using 한글.
Romanization warps meaning and leads to bad pronounciation and outright mistakes. So leaning 한글 is just a smart move and it does not take long.
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Agreed. I've heard some foreigners (I said it!) referring to the Han River as the "Harn River."
Then again, I've heard Koreans refer to the Thames river as the "Th-aim-iz" River".
Anyway, learning to read Korean characters is pi$$ easy and anyone who hasn't got it after six months ought to be ashamed. Just a general point. 
Oh, and one more thing. WTF is a 'Gimbop'? I've actually seen that written on this board. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
As for 한국어 (korean) you are always better off writing it out using 한글.
Romanization warps meaning and leads to bad pronounciation and outright mistakes. So leaning 한글 is just a smart move and it does not take long.
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Agreed. I've heard some foreigners (I said it!) referring to the Han River as the "Harn River."
Then again, I've heard Koreans refer to the Thames river as the "Th-aim-iz" River".
Anyway, learning to read Korean characters is pi$$ easy and anyone who hasn't got it after six months ought to be ashamed. Just a general point.
Oh, and one more thing. WTF is a 'Gimbop'? I've actually seen that written on this board. |
Some Korean pronunciations are butchered and are case in point as to the limitations of using certain alphabets to write words in another language.
At the same time there was one NET who was ridiculing the Koreans for calling Rome "Ro-Ma" and Italy "I-Tal-I-A" and Moscow "Mos-k-Ba". It took 10 minutes to convince him that the Korean was closer to the native pronunciation for those than the English. That was after the 5 minutes spent convincing him that Rome was not called 'Rome' by Italians.
Stuff like this makes me weep for Universities across the globe. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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At the same time there was one NET who was ridiculing the Koreans for calling Rome "Ro-Ma" and Italy "I-Tal-I-A" and Moscow "Mos-k-Ba". It took 10 minutes to convince him that the Korean was closer to the native pronunciation for those than the English. That was after the 5 minutes spent convincing him that Rome was not called 'Rome' by Italians.
Stuff like this makes me weep for Universities across the globe. |
I think you were mistaken about the tone of that post. The topic was communication. Yes we know Koreans pronounce a lot of cities in Europe as they are pronounced in those countries' languages, however English speaking countries have their own names for them and they should be taught. It's no good praising a Korean for their authentic Italian pronunciation if an English speaking foreigner can't understand them when they say 'Firenze' for example. Conversely, if you say you went to Prague to a Korean, they often don't know what you are talking about.
Some of the posters on here are obviously proud of their language abilities and like to show people they have made an effort to fit in with the local culture and can see some advantages to using the local language over English and that's all great. However, my attitude to language has always been about communication, because language is ultimately just a tool for that. Some of the attitudes on here remind me of old Classics teachers who drop Latin words into their speech every now and then just so they can castigate lazy school boys for not understanding them. It's all about getting the message across. You don't have to 'dumb down' to communicate effectively but you should be aware of not assuming everyone has your foreign language skills too. Some people might be lazy language learners, so what? Is it your place to take the moral high ground and exclude them from the conversation just to prove a point? Would you hang back on a walk to let the fat guy catch up or race ahead to teach him to take more exercise? There is a happy, more tolerant, medium. |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think anyone is arguing that romanisation is better than hangeul, nor is anyone saying that Korean should not be used on these boards. Obviously, if you live in Korea - then learn some Korean! I still think that posters who post in Korean would be more courteous to their readers if they provided English translations. Many people who read these boards are still in their home countries and are cruising Dave's for more information about working in Korea. Others may be new to Korea and translations will help them fill in some of their many language gaps - and that's what these boards are about, sharing information (and venting, of course). I don't think anyone is taking a reductionsit view that adding Korean to posts diminishes English; obviously, it doesn't, but glossing your Korean for potential readers who have fewer bilingual skills is win-win! Of course, it takes longer to type your post if you translate any Korean you may use - this seems to be an issue for some, but courtesy and universal comprehension has to be worth those few extra seconds, doesn't it? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| Some people might be lazy language learners, so what? Is it your place to take the moral high ground and exclude them from the conversation just to prove a point? Would you hang back on a walk to let the fat guy catch up or race ahead to teach him to take more exercise? There is a happy, more tolerant, medium. |
Quite true. However, learning hangul is not hard and will allow basic communication far more effectively and correctly than romanization. That is not taking the moral high ground, it is just practical sound advice. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| jinks wrote: |
| I don't think anyone is arguing that romanisation is better than hangeul, nor is anyone saying that Korean should not be used on these boards. Obviously, if you live in Korea - then learn some Korean! I still think that posters who post in Korean would be more courteous to their readers if they provided English translations. Many people who read these boards are still in their home countries and are cruising Dave's for more information about working in Korea. Others may be new to Korea and translations will help them fill in some of their many language gaps - and that's what these boards are about, sharing information (and venting, of course). I don't think anyone is taking a reductionsit view that adding Korean to posts diminishes English; obviously, it doesn't, but glossing your Korean for potential readers who have fewer bilingual skills is win-win! Of course, it takes longer to type your post if you translate any Korean you may use - this seems to be an issue for some, but courtesy and universal comprehension has to be worth those few extra seconds, doesn't it? |
Translation- Polite. Romanization- Courteous. Not arguing those points.
But catflap was against the use of hangul period according to his original post. That just makes no sense.
Also this thread wasn't a "newbie" thread about someone searching for information.
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| However, my attitude to language has always been about communication, because language is ultimately just a tool for that. |
If you are interested in communication then long-term, learning the hangul and practicing it is essential for increased communication while living in Korea. The romanization leads to faulty pronunciation and misinterpretation.
Yes, it requires slightly more time and more patience. No, it is not spoon-fed. But remember, when speaking Korean and using Hangul, the intended listeners are Koreans. Romanization does nothing to facilitate your communication with Koreans. Most posts involving hangul involve communicating with Koreans.
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| who drop Latin words into their speech |
It's this kind of "If it's difficult, it's the teacher's fault, I shouldn't have to lift a finger" mentality towards learning and information that I find troubling, especially in the academic world.
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| Some people might be lazy language learners, so what? Is it your place to take the moral high ground and exclude them from the conversation just to prove a point? |
Again, I support translation and romanization. I do not support NOT USING HANGUL. And if you're lazy, well you reap what you sow. I don't have someone being a lazy language learner if they don't complain about hangul. I do have a problem if someone is a lazy language learner and the complain about people typing in hangul. And not learning hangul is the equivalent of 500 lb. morbidly obese shut-in lazy.
Also, all the person has to do is ask for a translation and I'm sure most posters here would be happy to offer it. Avoid the laziness of not raising ones hand and asking the professor what they mean. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course I am not against learning Hangul or writing in Hangul where communication is between Foreigners and Koreans . And I accept that sometimes it's easier to use Hangul between two foreigners who understand Hangul to clear up possible misunderstandings. And i think it's lazy not to learn Hangul if you live in Korea. What I objected to was using Hangul in a situation that excludes people. As I said language is all about communication and if you use a language in a situation where some people don't understand it, you will exclude more people than if you use the language the majority of people have in common. So you will communicate with fewer people. In a meeting where everyone is Korean except one guy who doesn't speak Korean, if all the Koreans spoke some English it would be impolite to conduct the meeting in Korean, even if it was in Korea. Because you would be excluding someone unecessarily. I accept that sometimes it may be more convenient and quicker to use Hangul but I think it's better to take a little more time and avoid the possibility of excluding people. As I said before some people read these posts who may never come to Korea. If you're not interested in communicating properly with them, fair enough but I think communication is all about getting your message across to as many people as possible. And finally I would dispute the fact that anyone on here ever really needs to use Hangul when communicating with other native English speakers. Except perhaps if you're discussing Korean pronunciation. If it's just a question of vocabulary, it can be easier to use Hangul or more specific sometimes, but if you can't get the same message across in your own language or alphabet, you're a pretty poor communicator. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| As I said before some people read these posts who may never come to Korea. |
This board is for people who are in Korea, are coming to Korea or were in Korea and can offer something to other people in or coming to Korea.
Frankly, those people that read the forum and never go to Korea are irrelevant and do not need to be included in threads where the Korean language is discussed. In such threads, hangul should be used to provide people with the right tools to learn or improve their Korean.
If you use romanization, you will invariably learn bad pronounciation and have a harder time getting understood by Koreans. This will actually make learning Korean HARDER and more FRUSTRATING as you will not be understood well or will simply be missunderstood. That is a sure fire way of getting discouraged no? |
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mcviking
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Location: 'Fantastic' America
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| I prefer being called white devil myself. |
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