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Mosque to open Near Ground Zero
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
Sergio Stefanuto wrote:
Leon wrote:
Monocultural? In what way? I would say that the different regions have noticeably different cultures. Spend some time in the south, then go to the north east, then try and tell me they share the same culture. It's a ludicrous statement to make.


This is the 21st century, not the Antebellum. Southerners and people from the northeast of comparable occupations, incomes and backgrounds are indistinguishable. What you're referring to is natural social and economic forces that give rise to differences within the same culture.


This is funny to read. I'm guessing you're not American. Trust me, if you asked a southerner, or a northerner, if they are the same they would be glad to tell you otherwise.


Indeed. I relate more to some other nationalities than a lot of my fellow Americans.
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Summer Wine



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a position that needs supporting.

I guess I just have a couple of questions and points.

If they are making a muslim center for religious and cultural bonding, then why must it be a mosque? No other religion can enter a mosque for prayer. The land is now sanctified only for muslims.

If they want to spend that much money on a building for religious and cultural togetherness, how much would an annual camp cost? Couldn't they take a group of kids from the local middle schools for a one month camp every year for the next___ years?

Other than than, I am not sure how it will work out, but as a person without a dog in the race, with a of question "whats the point of the race?".

Don't the owners of the dogs ask the same questions?
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Summer Wine wrote:
I don't have a position that needs supporting.

I guess I just have a couple of questions and points.

If they are making a muslim center for religious and cultural bonding, then why must it be a mosque? No other religion can enter a mosque for prayer. The land is now sanctified only for muslims.

If they want to spend that much money on a building for religious and cultural togetherness, how much would an annual camp cost? Couldn't they take a group of kids from the local middle schools for a one month camp every year for the next___ years?

Other than than, I am not sure how it will work out, but as a person without a dog in the race, with a of question "whats the point of the race?".

Don't the owners of the dogs ask the same questions?


That's like asking why build a church. The thing that works best against extremist Islam is moderate Islam. Also providing a moderate face in the form of a community center could help Americans see another face to the religion.
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Jeonmunka



Joined: 05 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If muslims worldwide decided to end apostacy, then I would think differently about Islam. But that it is stuck in the middle ages with an atrocious 'law' puts me off it and follwers of it.
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Steve_Rogers2008



Joined: 22 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeonmunka wrote:
If muslims worldwide decided to end apostacy, then I would think differently about Islam. But that it is stuck in the middle ages with an atrocious 'law' puts me off it and follwers of it.


+1 dealing with a 'religion' still stuck in the Dark Ages has all sorts of problems....

it always reminds me of an old dennis miller joke, 'a moderate muslim is one who only bares a grudge for three generations.' So my 2100 AD, we can all get along again! Very Happy


which begs the question: WAS dennis miller ever REALLY funny? Shocked
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The thing that works best against extremist Islam is moderate Islam


Define 'moderate Islam'?
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigverne wrote:
Quote:
The thing that works best against extremist Islam is moderate Islam


Define 'moderate Islam'?


Define moderate anything.

As long as Westboro Baptist Church retains tax exempt status, let moderate Muslims build a mosque wherever they damn please.
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actionjackson



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Any place I'm at

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm, is it really that big of a deal? There already seems to be one in the area anyway, http://www.masjidmanhattan.com/.

Since 1970, Masjid Manhattan has been a peaceful, not-for-profit organization located in the area of downtown Manhattan. Our members are City, State and Federal employees, as well as professional employees of the Financial area who come to our Masjid to perform their daily prayers.

Is it really such a big deal then to build another one a couple of hundred feet away?
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Define moderate anything.


If people are going to state that the mosque should be built because it will preach a 'moderate' Islam, then they need to define what they mean by that, since a number of Muslim figures who have been deemed 'moderate' (usually by liberal Infidels) have, upon closer inspection, turned out to be regular run-of-the-mill Jew hating, Jihad supporting, Shariah advocating Muslims.

When a Muslim is described as a moderate it invariably means someone who says nice and fluffy things about 'inter-faith dialogue' and 'pluralism' to ignorant Western audiences, but who tells a very different tale when Kaffirs are not around.
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigverne wrote:
Quote:
Define moderate anything.


If people are going to state that the mosque should be built because it will preach a 'moderate' Islam, then they need to define what they mean by that, since a number of Muslim figures who have been deemed 'moderate' (usually by liberal Infidels) have, upon closer inspection, turned out to be regular run-of-the-mill Jew hating, Jihad supporting, Shariah advocating Muslims.

When a Muslim is described as a moderate it invariably means someone who says nice and fluffy things about 'inter-faith dialogue' and 'pluralism' to ignorant Western audiences, but who tells a very different tale when Kaffirs are not around.


I take it you haven't known too many Muslims personally if this is your view, and I'm sorry for you.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't care less what they preach in the new mosque. So long as we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion in the United States, they have nothing to apologize for. And as soon as the bigots realize that proteching the Muslims' freedom of speech and freedom of religion is not identical to, it is protecting everyone's freedom of speech and freedom of religion, the better off everyone, including the bigots, will be.
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The Happy Warrior



Joined: 10 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I support the construction of the mosque, in the sense that if someone peacefully goes through all the effort and expense to establish a place of worship, public opinion and prejudice should remain impotent.
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

northway wrote:
bigverne wrote:
Quote:
Define moderate anything.


If people are going to state that the mosque should be built because it will preach a 'moderate' Islam, then they need to define what they mean by that, since a number of Muslim figures who have been deemed 'moderate' (usually by liberal Infidels) have, upon closer inspection, turned out to be regular run-of-the-mill Jew hating, Jihad supporting, Shariah advocating Muslims.

When a Muslim is described as a moderate it invariably means someone who says nice and fluffy things about 'inter-faith dialogue' and 'pluralism' to ignorant Western audiences, but who tells a very different tale when Kaffirs are not around.


I take it you haven't known too many Muslims personally if this is your view, and I'm sorry for you.


Moderate Islam meaning tolerant Islam. Go spend some time in Malaysia, a Muslim country, and tell me that they are extremists. What good does ostracizing an entire group of people do?
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mc_jc



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The huge debate is why the mosque is being build there in the first place- there aren't many muslims in the area and most live across the river in New Jersey- why build it in a place where there are few followers to worship in it?
Ground Zero has become a "sacred place" for many Americans, especially those who lost loved ones during the attacks. Their feeling is that the mosque is indeed a slap in the face because it is being built right near the new World Trade Centers.
What many politicians and analysts fear- if plans to build the mosque are delayed or cancelled, it could send a wave of anti-American sentiment throughout the muslim community and throughout the muslim world. But many moderate muslims feel the mosque is wrong for being built there because it will a lot of ill-will against muslims by many Americans, something many fanatics want.

What I find amazingly ironic is one of the Saudi financial contributors to the building of the mosque is also known for sending money to Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan- this might say something about their intentions.


Last edited by mc_jc on Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
northway wrote:
bigverne wrote:
Quote:
Define moderate anything.


If people are going to state that the mosque should be built because it will preach a 'moderate' Islam, then they need to define what they mean by that, since a number of Muslim figures who have been deemed 'moderate' (usually by liberal Infidels) have, upon closer inspection, turned out to be regular run-of-the-mill Jew hating, Jihad supporting, Shariah advocating Muslims.

When a Muslim is described as a moderate it invariably means someone who says nice and fluffy things about 'inter-faith dialogue' and 'pluralism' to ignorant Western audiences, but who tells a very different tale when Kaffirs are not around.


I take it you haven't known too many Muslims personally if this is your view, and I'm sorry for you.


Moderate Islam meaning tolerant Islam. Go spend some time in Malaysia, a Muslim country, and tell me that they are extremists. What good does ostracizing an entire group of people do?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8451630.stm

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=9527846

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2577230.cms

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/18156/islam-8

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/24/world/asia/24malaysia.html?_r=1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/6150340.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6278568.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8151352.stm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6990454.ece

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/263905.stm
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