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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Holyjoe
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Away for a cuppa
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 Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Can the number of students be important?
I have taught hundreds of students in a week.
Do you teach three hundred students per week? |
Would all three hundred students be "absent 4+ days on teh[sic] trot."? |
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Skarp
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting range of response...
money is LOW in our place - no names no pack drill.... so no - it aint reasonable...
The US DOLLAR is low too....compare to other currencies and you'll see what's really going on. Our school doesn't like US staff - as they are unpopular with the majority of students.
School has been having trouble recruiting good staff...people with real training or experience are rare - and most peopel go for the higher paying places etc.
It could be 30-40 minutes work 2-3 times a week the way tehy have it....maybe more if you have lazy students.
Thin end of the wedge and all...what next - clean teh toilets?
Anyway - I'm looking for concrete, practical advice about how to not do the thing...based on experience of other folks in similar situations.
Korean teachers are Korean teachers...we are Natives. Different contracts, different skills. Different situation.
Management has already admitted this new work is not in the contract - they just think we should do it anyway.....
Skarp |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Skarp wrote: |
| The US DOLLAR is low too....compare to other currencies and you'll see what's really going on. Our school doesn't like US staff - as they are unpopular with the majority of students. |
As Lemon said, we can pull up a chart against any currency. Which currency would you like us to compare your claims of a Won crash against? We are all very curious now to see which currency the Won has collapsed against.
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| School has been having trouble recruiting good staff...people with real training or experience are rare - and most peopel go for the higher paying places etc. |
I don't think anyone here is going to believe that, especially given the number of threads that say "I want to teach adults as I'm tired of teaching kids". Hell, let's have a bet. Post up the name and contact information of your school, and let's see how many people apply just from reading this thread. We can make a wager!
I did some temp work at an adult school recenty after their native teacher decided that he was going to take a week off without notice, so they fired him. They had over 50 applications for his job within a week, over half of them from people in Korea, from a single ad.
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It could be 30-40 minutes work 2-3 times a week the way tehy have it....maybe more if you have lazy students.
Thin end of the wedge and all...what next - clean teh toilets? |
Slippery slope argument. Plus you haven't quoted us your contract yet, so it's likely that it says you must do things in support of your classes. Phoning students would fall under that. Cleaning toilets does not.
Also, you're being paid for it. Contrary to what some people think, they aren't paying you to sit and read the Internet.
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Korean teachers are Korean teachers...we are Natives. Different contracts, different skills. Different situation.
Management has already admitted this new work is not in the contract - they just think we should do it anyway..... |
Why not post up your contract? I'm curious what it says you are suppose to do in support of your classes. Maybe next week, you can post a thread talking about how the school is evil for asking you to do un-paid prep work as "it's not in the contract", the week after you can post a thread about how the school is evil for asking you to do un-paid showering because it's "not in the contract".
If they were asking you to call from your house or after the work hours, then you could have a case. Right now, it appears that you are complaining because they are cutting into your paid Internet usage time which doesn't really earn much sympathy. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Gord:
Would you do an extra 5hrs a week phoning students if it was "loosely" written in your contract as an area of "must do classwork duties outside of teaching"?
That can be interupted as ANYTHING. Cleaning your class. Decorating your class. Taking the kids out on picnics etc etc.
At what point are you going to realize you are bent over and taking it in the arse?
Seriously, you have no chances for promotion or profit sharing in 99.9% of hakwon jobs. Why should you be doing charity work based on a very open and general statement in your contract? Just because it says that?
Don't give me the "Well you signed it" argument. |
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aussie col
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Try Australian $ V's Won for a crash.... but actually it's the Aussie dollar that is just too strong... not the won getting weaker. But still, for the Australians out there it's like having a 35% pay cut over 12 months.
[/img] |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
Gord:
Would you do an extra 5hrs a week phoning students if it was "loosely" written in your contract as an area of "must do classwork duties outside of teaching"?
That can be interupted as ANYTHING. Cleaning your class. Decorating your class. Taking the kids out on picnics etc etc.
At what point are you going to realize you are bent over and taking it in the arse? |
When the extra work falls outside the hours I agreed to be present at the school. If I agreed to be there from 2-9 and I ended up teaching four hours, that leaves three hours unaccounted for. Knock off some time for lunch, and that leaves whatever time is left doing whatever they want as long as it's related to teaching.
After all, they are paying me to work for them, not to sit there on the Internet.
Sitting down during the time in which I'm being paid to work for them to phone students to ask what's going on isn't that big of a deal. If they said that I had to use my own phone and phone them from my apartment in the morning before I went to work, then that crosses the imaginary line.
But he hasn't suggested that there is any actual increase in work time outside the hours he agreed to work, but rather it will cut down on his being paid to surf the Internet time. |
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batman
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Oh so close to where I want to be
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Gord on this one.
Actually, I would give my cellphone number out to all of my students (age not an issue).
I would tell them all to phone me whenever they felt like it.
If I was busy I would pass on the call.
If I was not busy then what the heck (also helped to pass the time while I was doing cardio at the gym).
It was not something that was written in my contract (much like the extra help I would freely give any student who asked for it), it was just something that I would do.
The director of my last school saw my efforts at attracting and maintaining students and showed his appreciation.
The extra work I did was not in the contract to be true.
But neither was the extra money he gave me, nor the free meals, nor the two extra months of paid vacation, nor the spending money he gave me for my trip home last year, nor the gifts, clothes, ring and money he gave my son....
It is common knowledge that contracts in Korea are not worth the A4 they are written on.
They are merely scraps of paper we need to take to immigration to prove that we are about to embark on a (probable) madcap adventure.
What is important in Korea is not the written contract but the type of relationship you have with your director.
If the director is a decent enough fellow/gal and is capable of showing his/her appreciation and wants you to do a little work then what harm could it do (depending on the school, the situation, etc).
When I was working at KC Hell the cheap ba$ tard who owned the place did want me help with the cleaning of the place among other chores.
I said no because of the fact that slavemaster Lee was not the type of man I was willing to do any favours for.
(did favours for him and is hell born spawn in the initial days of my work period but realized there was no point)
Pick and choose.
After all, choice is what life is all about. |
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phaedrus
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
Gord:
Would you do an extra 5hrs a week phoning students if it was "loosely" written in your contract as an area of "must do classwork duties outside of teaching"?
That can be interupted as ANYTHING. Cleaning your class. Decorating your class. Taking the kids out on picnics etc etc.
At what point are you going to realize you are bent over and taking it in the arse? |
When the extra work falls outside the hours I agreed to be present at the school. If I agreed to be there from 2-9 and I ended up teaching four hours, that leaves three hours unaccounted for. Knock off some time for lunch, and that leaves whatever time is left doing whatever they want as long as it's related to teaching.
After all, they are paying me to work for them, not to sit there on the Internet.
Sitting down during the time in which I'm being paid to work for them to phone students to ask what's going on isn't that big of a deal. If they said that I had to use my own phone and phone them from my apartment in the morning before I went to work, then that crosses the imaginary line.
But he hasn't suggested that there is any actual increase in work time outside the hours he agreed to work, but rather it will cut down on his being paid to surf the Internet time. |
What reality are you in Gord?
Hagwon boss thought usually follows the line of "I am paying this person therefore they should do everything I want them to do". There is almost no end to the innovative new things the hagwon owner wants the teacher to do. New papers to fill out, new phone schedules, phoning to say hello, phoning to check up on students, phoning students who payed to have you phone them although teacher doesn't get paid to phone.....
If it is the difference between doing this phoning and surfing the net, well, do the phoning.
However, I think that although you may be required to teach only five hours and stay at the school seven or nine, whatever, the other time is not to do random chores for the boss but to prepare for your lessons.
I remember a thread about prep time....... |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| phaedrus wrote: |
| What reality are you in Gord? |
In the reality where I believe that one should actually work in exchange for getting paid, instead of fighting to be paid for reading the Internet.
| Quote: |
| Hagwon boss thought usually follows the line of "I am paying this person therefore they should do everything I want them to do". There is almost no end to the innovative new things the hagwon owner wants the teacher to do. New papers to fill out, new phone schedules, phoning to say hello, phoning to check up on students, phoning students who payed to have you phone them although teacher doesn't get paid to phone..... |
Which, ironically, doesn't bother me so long as it falls under the agreed to work hours. My first job I agreed to work from 2-10, which was fine. I only worked 3-4 hours a day, so I had a lot of time doing nothing. Sometimes things would come up related to the school, so I did them because I am working for the school.
The only thing I disagreed about was when they started an Internet chat from 10-10:30, as that was outside the agreed-to work time. If they said I could come in 30 minutes later, then no problem.
That's where I draw the line, doing work outside the agreed to work-hours.
| Quote: |
| If it is the difference between doing this phoning and surfing the net, well, do the phoning. |
Why do you insult me and then decide that you agree with me? Well, anyway, welcome to my side. |
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Corporal
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
Gord:
Would you do an extra 5hrs a week phoning students if it was "loosely" written in your contract as an area of "must do classwork duties outside of teaching"?
That can be interupted as ANYTHING. Cleaning your class. Decorating your class. Taking the kids out on picnics etc etc.
At what point are you going to realize you are bent over and taking it in the arse? |
When the extra work falls outside the hours I agreed to be present at the school. If I agreed to be there from 2-9 and I ended up teaching four hours, that leaves three hours unaccounted for. Knock off some time for lunch, and that leaves whatever time is left doing whatever they want as long as it's related to teaching.
After all, they are paying me to work for them, not to sit there on the Internet.
Sitting down during the time in which I'm being paid to work for them to phone students to ask what's going on isn't that big of a deal. If they said that I had to use my own phone and phone them from my apartment in the morning before I went to work, then that crosses the imaginary line.
But he hasn't suggested that there is any actual increase in work time outside the hours he agreed to work, but rather it will cut down on his being paid to surf the Internet time. |
I often wonder if you are really such a good employee as you like to come across.
I find myself doubting it. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| Corporal wrote: |
I often wonder if you are really such a good employee as you like to come across.
I find myself doubting it. |
I built myself a self-employed empire before I decided to come to Korea to do something different. So I see the big picture and work towards it instead of focusing on "class hours" and nothing more. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:10 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree with gords' basic idea here.
Its just common sense and good work ethics.
Aslo we have no idea what the OPs' contract is like, he seems to blow a lot of smoke about it.
His Won crash claim has been debunked by Lemon and his other arguments against doing this "extra" work sound more like lazy whining then genuine complaints.
If his contract shows otherwise then thats different.
Phoning students can very easily be seen as part as "teaching duties", thats like parent-teacher day back home which happens after teaching hours...
Also as a former teacher back home, grading was not included in the paid teachers duties at many schools where I worked. You had to do that "on your onw time"...
I worked at a hakwon from 3-8 mon-fri. Like Gord I had about 4 hours of teaching in there and the rest was idle time. If the school had asked me to call students during that time to me this would have fallen under teaching related duties.
If however they had asked me to do it in the morning or after 8pm then thats totally different. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| According to my contract I am obliged to be at my hagwon from 2pm until 9pm. I am teaching for about 4 and a half hours of that time. Lots of idle time. If needs be then I mark test papers, photocopy materials for future classes, have dinner, and think about the syllabus. I rarely leave before 9pm (even though I could if I wanted to). I also use this idle time to "have a laugh" with my students. Only today I was showing them pictures of my hometown on the internet. Good fun, and they appreciate the attention outside the classroom. For the most part, I'm with Gord and Homer on this one. For God's sake, a bit of hard work didn't do anyone any harm. |
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Gollum
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:46 am Post subject: |
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If your contract states hours, which mine always does, and you read it thoroughly and didn't allow for any "extra off-hour duties as assigned", then tell them "NO", unless the work can be done while you are within those working hours.
If they expect you to do this at night on your own time, then tell them "NO."
If they replace you, then make sure they pay you what you are owed -- including ticket if needed.
Get the other teachers to stick with you on this. If it gets rough, then get them to release you, and find another job.
Don't give in to everything. Politely refuse, because it's all a game of friendly pushing and nudging to make you do more. |
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Korea Newfie
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: Newfoundland and Labrador
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Extra work refusal strategies?? Advice |
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| The Lemon wrote: |
Me too. Here's a plot of the Won vs the US dollar rate, for the last two years:
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| The Lemon wrote: |
| The won is currently nearly the strongest it's been in at least the last two years. We can do this with any major currency you'd like. |
Lets.
KRW vs. CAD.
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