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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
[q
Irrelevant. If you want a nuclear free ME then Israel (the most belligerent and violent state in the region besides America) has to disarm. |
Since when was AMERICA a ME state? |
AMERICA may not be a ME state geographically, but it is certainly one in a militaristic sense and economically. It's really not that hard to understand. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Then that would make Iraq an American colony, not America a M.E state. |
Bizarre comment. You're trying to derail and distract.
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| As for the OP, Turkey may be a NATO ally (actually it is a NATO member). |
Distract and derail.
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| ...Turkey's meddling... |
Good god.
That's enough of you.
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| The Iranians say they play chess so I assume they know the risks. |
Sure. Does America know the risks? Does Israel? What is the likelihood that Israel will survive 20-30 more years, especially given the haaarrdd right demographic tilt taking shape? Between the Turks, Arabs, Persians and apparently now the Russians I'd say it is approaching zero. Given the exactly-precisely-totally identical strategic interests declared between the US and Israel, Israel's fate is the American fate. The US needs to back the *beep* off and Israel needs to make peace or we will have WW3. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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And before I hear that Israel doesn't have partners in peace.
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/08/06/new-poll-86-of-arabs-prepared-for-peace-with-israel/
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New Poll: 86% Of Arabs �Prepared For Peace� With Israel
A new poll of the Arab world has been getting a lot of attention for the precipitous drop in confidence in President Obama that it reveals, but equally as interesting to me is what the poll shows about Arab attitudes toward a resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict.
86% of respondents are �prepared for peace if Israel is willing to return all 1967 territories including East Jerusalem.� |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Back to my OP. This is completely insane. Unhinged. Turkey is a damn NATO ally. |
Apparently not as strong a NATO ally as Israel:
In his pre-election speech to AIPAC, BO said:
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| As president, I will implement a Memorandum of Understanding that provides $30 billion in assistance to Israel over the next decade � investments to Israel's security that will not be tied to any other nation. First, we must approve the foreign aid request for 2009. Going forward, we can enhance our cooperation on missile defense. We should export military equipment to our ally Israel under the same guidelines as NATO. |
Some other gems from that speech:
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As president I will never compromise when it comes to Israel's security.
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I have been proud to be a part of a strong, bipartisan consensus that has stood by Israel in the face of all threats. That is a commitment that both John McCain and I share, because support for Israel in this country goes beyond party.
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Hamas now controls Gaza. Hezbollah has tightened its grip on southern Lebanon, and is flexing its muscles in Beirut. Because of the war in Iraq, Iran � which always posed a greater threat to Israel than Iraq � is emboldened and poses the greatest strategic challenge to the United States and Israel in the Middle East in a generation. Iraq is unstable, and al-Qaida has stepped up its recruitment.
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Those who threaten Israel threaten us. Israel has always faced these threats on the front lines. And I will bring to the White House an unshakeable [sic] commitment to Israel's security.
That starts with ensuring Israel's qualitative military advantage.
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"As president, I will never compromise on Israel's security...This is a commitment that both John McCain and I share. Support for Israel goes beyond party...America's recent foreign policy has not made Israel more secure...Iran which poses the greatest threat to Israel has been emboldened and poses the greatest threat to the ME in a generation.' |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Turkey is being positioned as a pariah state. |
As it should be. As individuals, they're lovely people. As a nation, they're rotten [fill in your epithet of choice]. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
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| Well, US arms sales has a lot to do with America, since America would be the seller in that transaction. |
Right. Why is the US meddling? The oil companies are against these escalations. Even Haliburton! For democracy in a racialist state?
You don't like it, but that doesn't make it untrue. It's ok, Canada has long been a client state of the USA. It really doesn't hurt the ego that much. You can admit it. The United States is a client state. Hey, Canada is a client state of a client state. Come out with it. All this dancing and maneuvering is silly. The US couldn't be #1 forever. |
No, mises, this is not about my ego. I really just think the US refusing to sell Turkey drones is a minor matter with trifling significance. Turkey has been only a nominal ally for the past eight years or so.
| bacasper wrote: |
| Also, is getting the entire world to disarm its nukes a total pipe dream? with its current rulers, I am afraid so. |
I think we agree. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Turkey is being positioned as a pariah state. |
As it should be. As individuals, they're lovely people. As a nation, they're rotten [fill in your epithet of choice]. |
How's that? Referring to the Armenian genocide? Treatment of Kurds? or what exactly? |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| daskalos wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Turkey is being positioned as a pariah state. |
As it should be. As individuals, they're lovely people. As a nation, they're rotten [fill in your epithet of choice]. |
How's that? Referring to the Armenian genocide? Treatment of Kurds? or what exactly? |
Okay. Both. And Cyprus. And its freedom of expression laws. The very thinly veiled military control of its politics (lately in some abeyance because of its EU aspirations).
Germany is the model for formerly rotten [epithet] nations who own up to their crimes and move on. Turkey and Japan could learn a lot from the Germans. |
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itsjustverbs
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Turkey sees itself as a regional power with its own objectives. It is the US of 1, as other countries sense its weakness, esp. econ. these days. Turkey also has fellow Turks in Turkmen in Asia and sees avenues for influence, amd the USA can do little about it. Asia is a complex place. |
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