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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: The End of Men? |
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"For years, women�s progress has been cast as a struggle for equality. But what if equality isn�t the end point? What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women?....
"The worst-hit industries were overwhelmingly male and deeply identified with macho: construction, manufacturing, high finance. Some of these jobs will come back, but the overall pattern of dislocation is neither temporary nor random....
"Women dominate today�s colleges and professional schools�for every two men who will receive a B.A. this year, three women will do the same. Of the 15 job categories projected to grow the most in the next decade in the U.S., all but two are occupied primarily by women....
"The postindustrial economy is indifferent to men�s size and strength. The attributes that are most valuable today�social intelligence, open communication, the ability to sit still and focus�are, at a minimum, not predominantly male....
"Guys, one senior remarked to me, 'are the new ball and chain.' It may be happening slowly and unevenly, but it�s unmistakably happening: in the long view, the modern economy is becoming a place where women hold the cards....
"Men dominate just two of the 15 job categories projected to grow the most over the next decade: janitor and computer engineer. Women have everything else�nursing, home health assistance, child care, food preparation....
"But after the latest financial crisis, these ideas have more resonance. Researchers have started looking into the relationship between testosterone and excessive risk, and wondering if groups of men, in some basic hormonal way, spur each other to make reckless decisions. The picture emerging is a mirror image of the traditional gender map: men and markets on the side of the irrational and overemotional, and women on the side of the cool and levelheaded....
"Researchers at Columbia Business School and the University of Maryland analyzed data on the top 1,500 U.S. companies from 1992 to 2006 to determine the relationship between firm performance and female participation in senior management. Firms that had women in top positions performed better....
"Women now earn 60 percent of master�s degrees, about half of all law and medical degrees, and 42 percent of all M.B.A.s. Most important, women earn almost 60 percent of all bachelor�s degrees�the minimum requirement, in most cases, for an affluent life....
"Throughout the �90s, various authors and researchers agonized over why boys seemed to be failing at every level of education, from elementary school on up.... What�s clear is that schools, like the economy, now value the self-control, focus, and verbal aptitude that seem to come more easily to young girls."
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/1/
Very interesting... |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: In my Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Magazine writers are hacks in terms of philosophy: they formulate an idea and then patchwork quilt their sources and paste logic. I just finished reading Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers and really, he should stick to magazine article writing like the quoted piece from the Atlantic on this thread: worth a muse over a cup of java, no more. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with his highness. This article was just about the worst I've read in a long time. And the cute title, meant to refer to this I believe, really falls flat. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Does this mean I get to stay home and cook and clean for four hours and then go shopping with my wife's credit card and pick the kids up from soccer while jamming to some tunes and enjoying a relaxer in the parking lot by the soccer field?
I bet it doesn't.
One more thing- If women are better suited for today's economy and academic style, then men are better suited to enjoy idle time at home. Women+Idle time=Paranoia about their husband/scrip drug abuse.
Men+Idle time=Hobbies or lying in front of the TV wathcing Sportscenter from 9AM-12PM.
Bring on the new era. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Steelrails wrote: |
Does this mean I get to stay home and cook and clean for four hours and then go shopping with my wife's credit card and pick the kids up from soccer while jamming to some tunes and enjoying a relaxer in the parking lot by the soccer field?
I bet it doesn't.
One more thing- If women are better suited for today's economy and academic style, then men are better suited to enjoy idle time at home. Women+Idle time=Paranoia about their husband/scrip drug abuse.
Men+Idle time=Hobbies or lying in front of the TV wathcing Sportscenter from 9AM-12PM.
Bring on the new era. |
No doubt. Maybe we were born too early, huh? |
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D.D.
Joined: 29 May 2008
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Problem is you are assuming all men are stage 1 cavemen like. Many men have evolved to have the skills needed in the modern world. The cavemen jerks are about to not be useful anymore and their paradigm is failing, but there is other men who are not like that. Also let us not forget that that many women has become masculine like to compete in a stage 1 male dominated world and have not made it as females but have made it as females acting like blokes. These women will also have trouble adapting to the modern world.
Last edited by D.D. on Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NYC_Gal

Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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If my man wanted to stay home with the kids, that'd be great. He plans on retiring early, so it may be a reality. I'd love to come home to dinner with my man dressed in only an apron. My job is mainly freelance, so we could both end up in the countryside with high-speed internet and loads of hobbies. |
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nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:34 am Post subject: |
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If women want to take over, let them. If they do a better job at running a country then I couldn't care less.
Be fun to see it happen in korea. I hate the fact that korean girls/women do better academically than men here but their progress is cut short by this male dominated society. |
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jvalmer

Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: |
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nautilus wrote: |
If women want to take over, let them. If they do a better job at running a country then I couldn't care less.
Be fun to see it happen in korea. I hate the fact that korean girls/women do better academically than men here but their progress is cut short by this male dominated society. |
There is good possibility that the next election will feature 2 front running women duking it out for the presidency. In all practicality, it's only been since the mid-90's that women in Korea have been able allowed to work after giving birth. That was a mere 15 years ago. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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jvalmer wrote: |
nautilus wrote: |
If women want to take over, let them. If they do a better job at running a country then I couldn't care less.
Be fun to see it happen in korea. I hate the fact that korean girls/women do better academically than men here but their progress is cut short by this male dominated society. |
There is good possibility that the next election will feature 2 front running women duking it out for the presidency. In all practicality, it's only been since the mid-90's that women in Korea have been able allowed to work after giving birth. That was a mere 15 years ago. |
If that happens and one wins, the bashers need to seriously take hat in hand and exit stage right.
That and the views of gender liberation and the average Dave's poster are seriously questionable. |
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nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Steelrails wrote: |
jvalmer wrote: |
nautilus wrote: |
If women want to take over, let them. If they do a better job at running a country then I couldn't care less.
Be fun to see it happen in korea. I hate the fact that korean girls/women do better academically than men here but their progress is cut short by this male dominated society. |
There is good possibility that the next election will feature 2 front running women duking it out for the presidency. In all practicality, it's only been since the mid-90's that women in Korea have been able allowed to work after giving birth. That was a mere 15 years ago. |
If that happens and one wins, the bashers need to seriously take hat in hand and exit stage right.
That and the views of gender liberation and the average Dave's poster are seriously questionable. |
If they elect a woman president hopefully she will make irreversible changes to the status of Korean women. Perhaps laws regarding discrimination, workplace practises, domestic abuse, affirmative action, etc.
It only a few years back that women got railroaded into marriage to a partner selected for her by her parents, quietly endured violence, and was assumed to have no mind of her own. Things are transitioning slowly but the measure of a modern society is how female-inclusive it is.
I get tired of placemen being slotted into jobs, when its obvious that in many cases women could be doing better, with better skills and qualifications...but have been more-or-less forced to stay at home.
E.g. the number of K-women who speak fantastic english is not reflected in the workforce. They just don't get given the jobs that require them. Instead all you get is people who can't speak the language but got handed the job because of connections.
The future must be a little scary for K-man. At some point the construction and industrial jobs will dry up and women (who generally perform better academically) will be taking the better corporate jobs. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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nautilus wrote: |
Steelrails wrote: |
jvalmer wrote: |
nautilus wrote: |
If women want to take over, let them. If they do a better job at running a country then I couldn't care less.
Be fun to see it happen in korea. I hate the fact that korean girls/women do better academically than men here but their progress is cut short by this male dominated society. |
There is good possibility that the next election will feature 2 front running women duking it out for the presidency. In all practicality, it's only been since the mid-90's that women in Korea have been able allowed to work after giving birth. That was a mere 15 years ago. |
If that happens and one wins, the bashers need to seriously take hat in hand and exit stage right.
That and the views of gender liberation and the average Dave's poster are seriously questionable. |
If they elect a woman president hopefully she will make irreversible changes to the status of Korean women. Perhaps laws regarding discrimination, workplace practises, domestic abuse, affirmative action, etc.
It only a few years back that women got railroaded into marriage to a partner selected for her by her parents, quietly endured violence, and was assumed to have no mind of her own. Things are transitioning slowly but the measure of a modern society is how female-inclusive it is.
I get tired of placemen being slotted into jobs, when its obvious that in many cases women could be doing better, with better skills and qualifications...but have been more-or-less forced to stay at home.
E.g. the number of K-women who speak fantastic english is not reflected in the workforce. They just don't get given the jobs that require them. Instead all you get is people who can't speak the language but got handed the job because of connections.
The future must be a little scary for K-man. At some point the construction and industrial jobs will dry up and women (who generally perform better academically) will be taking the better corporate jobs. |
To push this in a general area and not just in Korea, does this mean in the future it may be men who have Affirmatve-Action type programs put in place for them? Perhaps our current system already reflects that...
I already know that in our English competitions that we have to seperate the non-spelling parts of the English competition into boys and girls because aside from spelling the boys lag at language skill. In the global economy language skill is going to be necessary and boys of all cultures are going to be having to 'catch up'.
Its interesting to tie all this talk of gender discrimination in with the ESL market...in that case we get supposedly 'less-qualified' women getting hired over men, albeit in a sort of 'modeling' sense.
As for those Korean men, don't worry they're better schooled at acquiring the necessary skills for higher education than their western counterparts. Hence the disproportionate rates of Koreans attending universities, particularly high-level ones.
I say that somewhat tongue-in-cheek only to point out that if you're going to bring culture into this whole gender equation, well then by the article's reasoning, Asian cultures are more in the 'right direction' than Western ones. |
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Quack Addict

Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:22 am Post subject: |
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Steelrails wrote: |
Does this mean I get to stay home and cook and clean for four hours and then go shopping with my wife's credit card and pick the kids up from soccer while jamming to some tunes and enjoying a relaxer in the parking lot by the soccer field?
I bet it doesn't.
One more thing- If women are better suited for today's economy and academic style, then men are better suited to enjoy idle time at home. Women+Idle time=Paranoia about their husband/scrip drug abuse.
Men+Idle time=Hobbies or lying in front of the TV wathcing Sportscenter from 9AM-12PM.
Bring on the new era. |
Epic WIN! |
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Tundra_Creature
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Steelrails wrote: |
Does this mean I get to stay home and cook and clean for four hours and then go shopping with my wife's credit card and pick the kids up from soccer while jamming to some tunes and enjoying a relaxer in the parking lot by the soccer field?
I bet it doesn't.
One more thing- If women are better suited for today's economy and academic style, then men are better suited to enjoy idle time at home. Women+Idle time=Paranoia about their husband/scrip drug abuse.
Men+Idle time=Hobbies or lying in front of the TV wathcing Sportscenter from 9AM-12PM.
Bring on the new era. |
Actually, I met a couple who the wife was the breadwinner who often had to travel and the husband cooked, cleaned, took the kids around, etc. They were really nice people. I know with his idle time he watched Doctor Who and doing tecchie stuff.
I personally would love to marry a fella who can cook. Not that I can't, but I'm not crazy about it. Only when I have sudden 'urges' to do so. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Clearly from the female responses to this I need to start re-marketing myself.
"Yes, I can cook, clean, sew, be faithful, shop for all the little things that you would enjoy, and take care of your 'needs' ANYTIME you want."
Actually that sounds like an alright gig.
They should make University degrees like this for men.
Yes I have a Masters in Domesticity from Martha Stewart University. That should easily put me in the high 5 figure, low 6 figure range. |
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