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Wai Mian
Joined: 03 Sep 2010 Location: WE DIDNT
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:04 am Post subject: Traditional Culture or Run-of-the-Mill Developmental State? |
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Chalmers Johnson in his book "Japan" identified the social policy involved in the creation of the developmental state, a state the relies on infant industry protection, import substitution, heavy state intervention, high exports, and low FDI, a system copied by Korea and Taiwan. All three were given assurances by the US that if they moved away from the industries where they held comparative advantage in the primary sector into high wage and high-value added industries, they would have a market in the US as long as they remained loyal allies in the Cold War to form necklace around the Chinese.
One of the features of the East Asian developmental state was a campaign to convince the population that the reason for their success was the special and unique nature of the native culture, the laziness of the Americans, and the high ethical character of the nation's employees--in short, anything to convince the population of how special they were and not reveal what a huge hand the government and geography had in shaping the economy and society.
So the next time you hear it's "Korean culture", be a little wary. What they mean to say is "this is good for exports". |
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v88
Joined: 28 Feb 2010 Location: here
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:36 am Post subject: |
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got a reference for this? Korea that is.
You are missing a little something though. This occurred in a relatively short time under a dictatorship after 40 years of Japanese rule and a rather nasty war. Korea's strong sense of identity did help them get past a rather low state in the nation's history and brought them out of a literal cultural black hole. Exactly what Korean culture is and what has been manufactured by the state is something to ponder. Modern Korea has slammed full throttle into modernity and consumerism with little thought to it's past except within specific areas the government protected for the sake of national pride. Obviously, yes, much of this 'nationalism' and 'cultural pride' does support rather unquestioning consumption and production of Korean products by the locals. However, I think in many cases this is national pride centered on culture but not the culture itself. A lot of Korean culture is just that, culture, and not some disguise for industrial growth. I don't think business men in Korea think of 'bali bali' as truly a Korean cultural trait. They are likely to say this is today's Korean culture while referring to something like 'pan-sori" or the Korean Hanoak as truly Korean, despite the fact that this sort of thing has been relatively abandoned by the masses in favour of k-pop and apartment buildings.
In this respect, it's not much different than the North American idea of bigger is better, or the endless need to live in sprawling suburbs. These are not really part of the traditional culture of the land even though they play a strong role in today's modern North American 'culture'. Oddly, we lie to ourselves by putting traditional facades on our homes. We play into the hands of corporations who build our suburbs and make the cars that access them. We live in just as big a lie. |
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Wai Mian
Joined: 03 Sep 2010 Location: WE DIDNT
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| v88 wrote: |
In this respect, it's not much different than the North American idea of bigger is better, or the endless need to live in sprawling suburbs. These are not really part of the traditional culture of the land even though they play a strong role in today's modern North American 'culture'. Oddly, we lie to ourselves by putting traditional facades on our homes. We play into the hands of corporations who build our suburbs and make the cars that access them. We live in just as big a lie. |
I've never heard an American say "it's American culture" to describe a day-to-day action. Obviously there are things wrongs with American culture but we're not so self-aware of it. I guess I'm not referring to actual "Korean culture", I meant "Koreans referring to 'Korean culture'". I think that more than anything bears the stamp of Park Chunghee's heavy handed statism.
Also, I'm not saying it wasn't necessary given the historical context, I just think the historical and political economic context should be given a little more of a spotlight rather than just using the word 'culture' as both bludgeon and shield. |
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v88
Joined: 28 Feb 2010 Location: here
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:55 am Post subject: |
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True, Koreans do defend almost any action with the tag line "This is Korean culture." I whole heartedly agree that this is likely a result of Park Chun-hee.
I was merely pointing out that we North Americans are also duped even though we may not defend our suburbs with the notion of it being 'our culture'. It is a culture in many texts...sociology, geography and even planning texts refer to it as a culture.
After all is said and done though, we are all duped by consumerism.
I totally agree with your last statement. |
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crossmr

Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| I find Americans or Canadians would be more likely to say "that's just the way things are done" or "That's how we do it around here" rather than say "That's American culture" it boils down to the same thing. |
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Wai Mian
Joined: 03 Sep 2010 Location: WE DIDNT
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| I find Americans or Canadians would be more likely to say "that's just the way things are done" or "That's how we do it around here" rather than say "That's American culture" it boils down to the same thing. |
No, it doesn't, that's exactly the point. Koreans/Japanese are much more into the concept of racial/cultural determinism than the West, and it's a result of the developmental model. That's why they use the word "Korean" or "Japanese" rather than a general noun like "the way" and "around here". Korean and Japanese are very circumspect languages, the fact that they will come out and use such a contrastive way of speaking is very telling. |
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crossmr

Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Wai Mian wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
| I find Americans or Canadians would be more likely to say "that's just the way things are done" or "That's how we do it around here" rather than say "That's American culture" it boils down to the same thing. |
No, it doesn't, that's exactly the point. Koreans/Japanese are much more into the concept of racial/cultural determinism than the West, and it's a result of the developmental model. That's why they use the word "Korean" or "Japanese" rather than a general noun like "the way" and "around here". Korean and Japanese are very circumspect languages, the fact that they will come out and use such a contrastive way of speaking is very telling. |
for the most part Korea and Japan are much closer to different cultures than America is. America has Mexico to the South, but Canada isn't drastically different (especially these days) in regards to a lot. So drawing that line between "our culture" isn't as significant. America is also the defacto dominant culture as far as their society is concerned so there is little need to remind people of the distinction. I assume you're probably also comparing this to what Koreans say in English, their second language.
and never say never. You might want to try googling some related phrases and you'll see plenty of Americans referring to things as "American culture" as an excuse for something. Canadians also use it in a desperate attempt to keep a separate identity from the Americans. When other cultures are constantly at your door, making a point about yours is one way to try and hold on to it.
You might also look up the phrase "it's the american way"
http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&safe=off&q=%22It%27s+the+american+way%22+-keith&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=571c7d7a2065c206
3.7 million uses, and that includes dropping "keith" to avoid as many hits on the song as possible.
America doesn't need to draw those lines as much as other countries, but they still do. |
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Wai Mian
Joined: 03 Sep 2010 Location: WE DIDNT
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crossmr

Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Wai Mian wrote: |
http://search.naver.com/search.naver?sm=tab_hty&where=nexearch&query=%C7%D1%B1%B9%B9%AE%C8%AD&x=0&y=0
보세요! Internet searches mean squat.
Actually you're proving my point. I'm not saying there's not reasons, I'm saying those reasons lead to 'culture' being used in an overly defensive and obfuscative manner. |
No, your search mean's squat, because you've simply searched for "Korean Culture" you haven't given a search which demonstrates it being used in a defensive manner as you've suggested.
I gave you a search for a specific phrase being used in a defensive manner to explain (generally) things that other people might not understand or agree with.
you going to tell us which account you got banned under? Brand new account immediate entry into several controversial Korean topics..yeah.. you were fun for 2 seconds, but you're quite transparent. |
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