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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Frenetic wrote: |
| I'll pay back my 100,000 dollar loan (half of that is probably interest) when I can get a job paying at least 70K a year. Until that day comes, they can kiss my elbow. |
Thanks to people like you, my interest rates are higher and therefore the cost of everything is higher.
They need to bring back debtors prison. |
Throwing defaulters in jail will not restore you a dime. |
It may prevent future losses and future higher interest rates by serving as a deterrent.
Throwing murderers in prison doesn't bring people back form the dead either, your point? |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| steel rails, if the banks just didn't hand out loans like lollies this mess wouldn't exist in the first place. Plus, debtors prison is not coming back. The people that go to jail over unpaid bills go to jail because of contempt of court and that's only in a few states like IL. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Frenetic wrote: |
| I'll pay back my 100,000 dollar loan (half of that is probably interest) when I can get a job paying at least 70K a year. Until that day comes, they can kiss my elbow. |
Thanks to people like you, my interest rates are higher and therefore the cost of everything is higher.
They need to bring back debtors prison. |
Throwing defaulters in jail will not restore you a dime. |
It may prevent future losses and future higher interest rates by serving as a deterrent.
Throwing murderers in prison doesn't bring people back form the dead either, your point? |
Do you liken being unable to repay debts to murdering people?
Rarely do I have an argument handed to me.
But, no, people should not be thrown in jail for failing to pay debts unless their conduct was willful, i.e., the con who never intends to repay in the first place. You could make a very strong argument that signing a loan document without an intent to repay is more than mere fraud, its theft. But as mises said, we don't imprison people who fall behind on their finances, because that would be a Dark Ages mentality. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Even with 100,000 USD in debt, making a lower-end salary of 2.1 million won, one would be able to save approximately 16,000 per year. It's not difficult. Defaulting is irresponsible if you have the means to repay. |
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Ninjaniki
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Even with 100,000 USD in debt, making a lower-end salary of 2.1 million won, one would be able to save approximately 16,000 per year. It's not difficult. Defaulting is irresponsible if you have the means to repay. |
This is an assumption. You have no idea what someone else is able to save. You don't know what their other responsibilities are. They may have other more important debts to take care of first ( credit cards, car notes, maybe even a morgage) or a responsibility to their family. You don't know so you can't assume. Defaulting in this case is not irresponsible. It is about prioritizing. If you can save some money after paying for the urgent things, then it is better to pay yourself first. It is better to have savings than to not have any because you are stressed about student loans. God forbid you lose your job, or have some emergency situation and you have no money saved. Well hey at least you were a good citizen who attempted to pay back a portion of your outrageous loan, but now you're broke and homeless and need to borrow money from someone to take care of your basic needs. No one is going to feel sorry for you, certainly not the student loans companies.
Pay yourself first. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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It's a fair assumption that you skipped my previous posts regarding Schwa. You'd see that I agree.
I'm talking about single, fresh-out-of-uni teachers in Korea. There is no excuse for defaulting in such a scenario. Medical bills? Fair enough. Plain laziness? Never. |
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Ninjaniki
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
It's a fair assumption that you skipped my previous posts regarding Schwa. You'd see that I agree.
I'm talking about single, fresh-out-of-uni teachers in Korea. There is no excuse for defaulting in such a scenario. Medical bills? Fair enough. Plain laziness? Never. |
Your assumption is incorrect. I've read all 16 pages of this. Excuses are like butts, everybody has one. You don't know someone's personal situation. So what if they are fresh out of school. You don't know what their other priorities are. You really don't know. If they default it's between them and their lender. There is always a reason, whether you agree with it or not. Unless they intended not to pay it back when they signed on the dotted line, then you can't really judge them fairly. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Frenetic wrote: |
| I'll pay back my 100,000 dollar loan (half of that is probably interest) when I can get a job paying at least 70K a year. Until that day comes, they can kiss my elbow. |
Thanks to people like you, my interest rates are higher and therefore the cost of everything is higher.
They need to bring back debtors prison. |
Throwing defaulters in jail will not restore you a dime. |
It may prevent future losses and future higher interest rates by serving as a deterrent.
Throwing murderers in prison doesn't bring people back form the dead either, your point? |
Do you liken being unable to repay debts to murdering people?
Rarely do I have an argument handed to me.
But, no, people should not be thrown in jail for failing to pay debts unless their conduct was willful, i.e., the con who never intends to repay in the first place. You could make a very strong argument that signing a loan document without an intent to repay is more than mere fraud, its theft. But as mises said, we don't imprison people who fall behind on their finances, because that would be a Dark Ages mentality. |
Except in this case it isn't "falling behind" its willfully choosing not to repay.
There are measures for people who 'fall behind' to negotiate a settlement and take a penalty while still retaining a grip on things.
Maybe if debtors prison existed people would think twice about raking up massive amounts of credit card debt.
EVeryone wants to blame the big bad banks. I don't think banks should be bailed out and I don't think Joe Schmoe should be bailed out either. Botha re one and the same. |
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DaeguKid
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Even with 100,000 USD in debt, making a lower-end salary of 2.1 million won, one would be able to save approximately 16,000 per year. It's not difficult. Defaulting is irresponsible if you have the means to repay. |
wow. So what about the people who are not in Korea. Who are at home. Working a job and not making ends meet? Who rent cause they cannot afford to buy. Should they be forced to be in that situation for 10 years? Live cheque to cheque? What if they have a kid? Last I heard they are not free. Stop judging people by calling them irresponsible even if they have a means to pay. Everyone is different. Let it be.
In fact here an article that just came out today. People are staying in school cause there are no good jobs and this is the only way the can avoid paying their loans. Are they irresponsible?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-raises-cap-at-eleventh-hour-to-keep-student-loans-flowing/article1696833/
No calls Donald Trump irresponsible even though he declared bankruptcy, TWICE! |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Ninjaniki wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
It's a fair assumption that you skipped my previous posts regarding Schwa. You'd see that I agree.
I'm talking about single, fresh-out-of-uni teachers in Korea. There is no excuse for defaulting in such a scenario. Medical bills? Fair enough. Plain laziness? Never. |
Your assumption is incorrect. I've read all 16 pages of this. Excuses are like butts, everybody has one. You don't know someone's personal situation. So what if they are fresh out of school. You don't know what their other priorities are. You really don't know. If they default it's between them and their lender. There is always a reason, whether you agree with it or not. Unless they intended not to pay it back when they signed on the dotted line, then you can't really judge them fairly. |
Spout off grandpa sayings if you must, but there is no excuse, if one can make the money, to not pay it off. Priorities and responsibilities are different animals. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DaeguKid wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Even with 100,000 USD in debt, making a lower-end salary of 2.1 million won, one would be able to save approximately 16,000 per year. It's not difficult. Defaulting is irresponsible if you have the means to repay. |
wow. So what about the people who are not in Korea. Who are at home. Working a job and not making ends meet? Who rent cause they cannot afford to buy. Should they be forced to be in that situation for 10 years? Live cheque to cheque? What if they have a kid? Last I heard they are not free. Stop judging people by calling them irresponsible even if they have a means to pay. Everyone is different. Let it be.
In fact here an article that just came out today. People are staying in school cause there are no good jobs and this is the only way the can avoid paying their loans. Are they irresponsible?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-raises-cap-at-eleventh-hour-to-keep-student-loans-flowing/article1696833/
No calls Donald Trump irresponsible even though he declared bankruptcy, TWICE! |
I'm not talking about the people who aren't in Korea. I'm talking about people who move here, make a minimum of 2.1 million, have no families to support, and are fresh out of uni. THESE people have the means to pay back their loans. To default because they don't live in the country that gave the loan is immoral. |
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Ninjaniki
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Ninjaniki wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
It's a fair assumption that you skipped my previous posts regarding Schwa. You'd see that I agree.
I'm talking about single, fresh-out-of-uni teachers in Korea. There is no excuse for defaulting in such a scenario. Medical bills? Fair enough. Plain laziness? Never. |
Your assumption is incorrect. I've read all 16 pages of this. Excuses are like butts, everybody has one. You don't know someone's personal situation. So what if they are fresh out of school. You don't know what their other priorities are. You really don't know. If they default it's between them and their lender. There is always a reason, whether you agree with it or not. Unless they intended not to pay it back when they signed on the dotted line, then you can't really judge them fairly. |
Spout off grandpa sayings if you must, but there is no excuse, if one can make the money, to not pay it off. Priorities and responsibilities are different animals. |
Priorities and responsibilities are inter-related. If you are talking about one sooner or later the other one comes up. Student loans are not a priority especially if you owe over $40,000 and it will take forever to pay off. Yes you are responsible for them but you don't have to make it your priority. People have more important things to do with the little money they earn. Everybody has to make a choice. Should I pay my car note or student loan? Should I pay my credit card bill or my student loan? Should I send money to my dear ole granny or my student loan? Should I save money for a rainy day or pay my student loan? Should I take a lifetime opportunity to travel to Thailand or pay my student loan?
Life is about choices, and everyone has a different history, and a different reason for doing things the way they do. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Guys, just so you know, its attitudes like yours which are the reason banks are so ornery with us.
Geez if I was a lending institution and read threads like this I sure wouldn't issue credit cards to E-2s.
You say you guys don't like banks and loans? Fine. Lets abolish the practice of student loans. All of those currently not making payments can return their degrees and go back to the status of "High School Graduate". |
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Ninjaniki
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| DaeguKid wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Even with 100,000 USD in debt, making a lower-end salary of 2.1 million won, one would be able to save approximately 16,000 per year. It's not difficult. Defaulting is irresponsible if you have the means to repay. |
wow. So what about the people who are not in Korea. Who are at home. Working a job and not making ends meet? Who rent cause they cannot afford to buy. Should they be forced to be in that situation for 10 years? Live cheque to cheque? What if they have a kid? Last I heard they are not free. Stop judging people by calling them irresponsible even if they have a means to pay. Everyone is different. Let it be.
In fact here an article that just came out today. People are staying in school cause there are no good jobs and this is the only way the can avoid paying their loans. Are they irresponsible?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-raises-cap-at-eleventh-hour-to-keep-student-loans-flowing/article1696833/
No calls Donald Trump irresponsible even though he declared bankruptcy, TWICE! |
I'm not talking about the people who aren't in Korea. I'm talking about people who move here, make a minimum of 2.1 million, have no families to support, and are fresh out of uni. THESE people have the means to pay back their loans. To default because they don't live in the country that gave the loan is immoral. |
Even if they have no children, they may be supporting other family in times like these, or they may just have other financial obligations that they don't reveal to you. Their money is going other places. So what if they default on purpose. Immoral it may be, depending on how you look at it. People do immoral things everyday. Such is life. If someone chooses to default then they carefully thought it out, and it's a business decision. It may be the best thing to do is walk away when you're way in over your head. Businesses and corporations do it. People do it. It happens, even with the best of intentions. If I have to decide on paying a student loan or taking care of me and mine, then you know what it's going to be. Sometimes people have to make these decisions.
What if after paying all their bills they have at most $300-$500 leftover. Let's say they use this money to pay their loan so they are unable to save. Now, what happens if they lose their job, or their is an emergency situation. They will need to live with someone or borrow money. You might be the first one to say well if you would have just saved some money you wouldn't be in this situation. You might start judging them again. I say it's more important to save money while and if you can than worry about student loans. Especially if you have no one to depend on or if there are people depending on you. If you can save and pay your loans and all other bills that's wonderful. More power to you. If you can't then you need not be judged, especially by someone who doesn't know what's going on in your life. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Ninjaniki wrote: |
Priorities and responsibilities are inter-related. If you are talking about one sooner or later the other one comes up. Student loans are not a priority especially if you owe over $40,000 and it will take forever to pay off. Yes you are responsible for them but you don't have to make it your priority. People have more important things to do with the little money they earn. Everybody has to make a choice. Should I pay my car note or student loan? Should I pay my credit card bill or my student loan? Should I send money to my dear ole granny or my student loan? Should I save money for a rainy day or pay my student loan? Should I take a lifetime opportunity to travel to Thailand or pay my student loan?
Life is about choices, and everyone has a different history, and a different reason for doing things the way they do. |
It would take 4 years to pay off 40k USD.
Car or uni? It would have been foolish to take out a large loan for a car if you were already in debt. One should have purchased a decent used car for 5k.
Credit card or student loan? BOTH.
Save money or pay for a student loan? Pay the loan.
Travel to Thailand or pay back the loan? The loan.
Give money to grandma or pay back the loan? Well that depends on why grandma needs it. Still, living in Korea, there is more than ample opportunity to do BOTH. |
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