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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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 Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: An old but interesting read |
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http://www.chinasecurity.us/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=293&Itemid=8
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Nationalism Grows Older, Not Wiser
Unhappy China is reminiscent of another best-seller from 13 years ago, China Can Say No. In general, it can be said that the positions on nationalism in China Can Say No and Unhappy China are of the same origin. However, the former is characterized by a more reactionary nationalism, while the latter is distinguished by a more actively offensive style of nationalism. Unhappy China seeks to take the simple nationalistic expression of �holding heads high� and apply it to other ends. The book frequently mentions �great objectives� which are based on the idea that the universal law of existence among nation-states is not harmonious coexistence, but survival of the fittest. Harmonious and peaceful coexistence is seen by the new nationalists as a scholarly invention and harmful to the national interest. As for the �great objectives� and how to achieve them, the book states that China should �do business while holding the sword.� In doing so, �we will gain access to more natural resources, we will manage our economy better, offer political guidance to others, and we will lead this world.� As for the means, the book emphasizes a Machiavellian outlook in which the ends justify the means, and anything can be done in order to achieve its lofty goals.
If one likens the nationalism in China Can Say No to a primary student inexperienced in the ways of the world and susceptible to change, then today�s Unhappy China is a middle school student who has just grown a bit of muscle and wants to find someone to spar with. It is more dangerous than the nationalism of 13 years ago and also more challenging because though it is only an adolescent, it is full of outdated poetic dreams. It is inexperienced in the ways of the world, but is full of fight. It always wants to make trouble in the neighborhood, and it differs with a young child in that it really can cause trouble for the parents (the government) and its neighbors (the international community). Problems can be created unnecessarily in the most accident-prone stretches of China�s long road to transformation. If the nationalism in Unhappy China prevails, small incidents in international negotiations could easily become big issues and harmonious coexistence may transform into a zero sum game.
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Looking at China�s current history, one can see the disconnect that was created as the long-term humiliation of China ended and the nation began to strengthen. The former attitude remains prevalent yet the latter has given the people increased confidence to express themselves more assertively. This is exacerbated by the fact that people of large countries often harbor illusions of grandeur, interpreting the nation�s vast land area and population as signs of superior strength. But China has been weak for a long period, and its national strength is still a long way from becoming truly formidable in a comprehensive sense. The contradiction created between insufficient national strength and an abnormally high level of self-confidence can lead a country towards disastrous pitfalls. Generally speaking, citizens of small countries have a more modest state of mind and are more practical due to their limited power and influence. This phenomenon is fertile ground for the radical nationalists of large countries as they create the national expectations that often exceed actual abilities. Thus, whenever China is in crisis, lofty nationalism has an especially strong influence among the people.
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Hotwire
Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Location: Multiverse
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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In the Cultural museum in Beijing they have several exhibits about previous ignominies China has suffered at the hands of the West, the Opium Wars, unfair trade, gunboat diplomacy, forced concessions etc...
Who can blame them for thinking it is a dog eat dog world even on a geopolitical scale?
Oh and of course; it IS.
It's nature's way. Sad, but hey ho.
Why did the West get so affluent? Slavery, colonialism and plunder.
The Europeans that settled the USA literally commited widespread genocide.
If I were from Africa, S.America, China or literally any other non Caucasian majority country I would too look at Western nations as lying, plundering hypocrites and also with an envious eye.
But our own government's are so damn good at spin, and that coupled with our own naivety and need to feel good and todays PC atmosphere has most of citizens believing otherwise....
In the museum many Chinese glared at me when I was browsing those exhibits, looking for a reaction.
There is a deep, burning sense of unfair play, humilliation and desire to get the upper hand all around the world in emerging nations. To have a chance at being the Top Dog.
Was at Itaewan a month ago. A group of S.American males in their 40's were walking around enraged shouting stuff like 'America! Euopeans! Hah! Lowlife! They will see, soon they will fall and we will be the new Kings and Princes...'
Etc.
Really happened.
Them and their leaders will smile at the West's face until they have enough power to not have to do so anymore.
Things MAY be changing. I say MAY as imo a lot of these nations are just too reactionary, illogical and can't organize a proverbial piss up in a brewery on both local, national and international scale.
The USA, UK et al are a bunch of lying, cheating hypocrites - yes: but they are exremely well organised and are VERY GOOD at doing it! |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Hotwire wrote: |
In the Cultural museum in Beijing they have several exhibits about previous ignominies China has suffered at the hands of the West, the Opium Wars, unfair trade, gunboat diplomacy, forced concessions etc...
Who can blame them for thinking it is a dog eat dog world even on a geopolitical scale?
Oh and of course; it IS.
It's nature's way. Sad, but hey ho.
Why did the West get so affluent? Slavery, colonialism and plunder.
The Europeans that settled the USA literally commited widespread genocide.
If I were from Africa, S.America, China or literally any other non Caucasian majority country I would too look at Western nations as lying, plundering hypocrites and also with an envious eye.
But our own government's are so damn good at spin, and that coupled with our own naivety and need to feel good and todays PC atmosphere has most of citizens believing otherwise....
In the museum many Chinese glared at me when I was browsing those exhibits, looking for a reaction.
There is a deep, burning sense of unfair play, humilliation and desire to get the upper hand all around the world in emerging nations. To have a chance at being the Top Dog.
Was at Itaewan a month ago. A group of S.American males in their 40's were walking around enraged shouting stuff like 'America! Euopeans! Hah! Lowlife! They will see, soon they will fall and we will be the new Kings and Princes...'
Etc.
Really happened.
Them and their leaders will smile at the West's face until they have enough power to not have to do so anymore.
Things MAY be changing. I say MAY as imo a lot of these nations are just too reactionary, illogical and can't organize a proverbial piss up in a brewery on both local, national and international scale.
The USA, UK et al are a bunch of lying, cheating hypocrites - yes: but they are exremely well organised and are VERY GOOD at doing it! |
Rambling nonsense. |
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Man on Street
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Location: In the Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Hotwire wrote: |
In the Cultural museum in Beijing they have several exhibits about previous ignominies China has suffered at the hands of the West, the Opium Wars, unfair trade, gunboat diplomacy, forced concessions etc...
Who can blame them for thinking it is a dog eat dog world even on a geopolitical scale?
Oh and of course; it IS.
It's nature's way. Sad, but hey ho.
Why did the West get so affluent? Slavery, colonialism and plunder.
The Europeans that settled the USA literally commited widespread genocide.
If I were from Africa, S.America, China or literally any other non Caucasian majority country I would too look at Western nations as lying, plundering hypocrites and also with an envious eye.
But our own government's are so damn good at spin, and that coupled with our own naivety and need to feel good and todays PC atmosphere has most of citizens believing otherwise....
In the museum many Chinese glared at me when I was browsing those exhibits, looking for a reaction.
There is a deep, burning sense of unfair play, humilliation and desire to get the upper hand all around the world in emerging nations. To have a chance at being the Top Dog.
Was at Itaewan a month ago. A group of S.American males in their 40's were walking around enraged shouting stuff like 'America! Euopeans! Hah! Lowlife! They will see, soon they will fall and we will be the new Kings and Princes...'
Etc.
Really happened.
Them and their leaders will smile at the West's face until they have enough power to not have to do so anymore.
Things MAY be changing. I say MAY as imo a lot of these nations are just too reactionary, illogical and can't organize a proverbial piss up in a brewery on both local, national and international scale.
The USA, UK et al are a bunch of lying, cheating hypocrites - yes: but they are exremely well organised and are VERY GOOD at doing it! |
Time to go home and flog myself for being a barbaric white American male again  |
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Hotwire
Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Location: Multiverse
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Man on Street wrote: |
| Hotwire wrote: |
In the Cultural museum in Beijing they have several exhibits about previous ignominies China has suffered at the hands of the West, the Opium Wars, unfair trade, gunboat diplomacy, forced concessions etc...
Who can blame them for thinking it is a dog eat dog world even on a geopolitical scale?
Oh and of course; it IS.
It's nature's way. Sad, but hey ho.
Why did the West get so affluent? Slavery, colonialism and plunder.
The Europeans that settled the USA literally commited widespread genocide.
If I were from Africa, S.America, China or literally any other non Caucasian majority country I would too look at Western nations as lying, plundering hypocrites and also with an envious eye.
But our own government's are so damn good at spin, and that coupled with our own naivety and need to feel good and todays PC atmosphere has most of citizens believing otherwise....
In the museum many Chinese glared at me when I was browsing those exhibits, looking for a reaction.
There is a deep, burning sense of unfair play, humilliation and desire to get the upper hand all around the world in emerging nations. To have a chance at being the Top Dog.
Was at Itaewan a month ago. A group of S.American males in their 40's were walking around enraged shouting stuff like 'America! Euopeans! Hah! Lowlife! They will see, soon they will fall and we will be the new Kings and Princes...'
Etc.
Really happened.
Them and their leaders will smile at the West's face until they have enough power to not have to do so anymore.
Things MAY be changing. I say MAY as imo a lot of these nations are just too reactionary, illogical and can't organize a proverbial piss up in a brewery on both local, national and international scale.
The USA, UK et al are a bunch of lying, cheating hypocrites - yes: but they are exremely well organised and are VERY GOOD at doing it! |
Time to go home and flog myself for being a barbaric white American male again |
Not at all. Release yourself from such judgments and realise its just nature.
Global interactions from day 1 between countries have been dog eat dog. It's called history. That's how rich poweful nations have always become and stayed rich and powerful - consuming the wealth and labor of others.
Perhaps a globalised - and I mean a truly globalised world under one democratic government - could change things.
Don't see it happpening in my lifetime though. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:05 am Post subject: |
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The problem I have with China is they are trying to recreate a world that never existed in our lifetime.
I didn't carry out a colonial action, neither did my parents. Nor my Grandfather for that matter. My Great Grandfather was a glorified serf.
It did happen, but it doen't mean they need to make the same mistakes that my forefathers might have - even if it makes the nationalists proud of themselves.
When I was a kid, I remember my parents talking about a friend of thiers - he had a scar about his throat. The Japanese had captured him and tied him to a tree and tortured him. They then cut his throat, but he didn't die and he escaped and warned the americans about an attack on them. (Years later, I read a book and realised he was a famous person -though to my parents he was just a friend).
The Japanese believed that they had the right to expand and so they did so, then they told people that they were fighting the white people and so it was in everyones best interest to support them. Though it seemed not everyones.
They lost the war and in the 1980s I was told how everyone should learn Japanese as they were the dominant economic power out there. They had proved how inefficient my country was.
Now I listen to people tell me how the Japanese are in a depression and the Chinese are the best people out there. Yet the Chinese seem to be making the same mistake the Japanese made in the 1930s and 40s.
They are forgetting that you catch more flies (post edit) with honey than vinegar.
Claiming the South China Sea, ignoring the fact that the East Sea also borders Korea and if it is Chinese, its also Korean, stating that they are right due to a 5000 yr history while ignoring the fact that in certain parts of the pacific 5000 yrs is not all that uncommon.
So China is developing economically - great.
Does this mean they have the right to take over other peoples lands or oceans? Not a chance. Should we let them?
Only if we are ignorant about history and Japan in 1905 and where that led us too in 1945. If we had stood up against Hitler and his demand for the sudetenland in 1938 would I be in the position today of never meeting my fathers, Father? |
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