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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to culture shock. Culture shock is the sudden realization that other people believe in things different than I do, behave in a manner different than I do and have customs and habits different than I do.
There is generally three reactions to culture shock.
1) You think the other culture is great and better than yours.
2) You think the other culture is horrible and much worse than yours.
3) You think the other culture is what it is without any judgement.
Most people pass through all 3 stages in periodic shifts. At times, you are like this is great. Other times, you are like what the heck all the time. And, still at other times, you are like whatever.
If you can, stay in #3 as much as possible. Some people call it being open minded about things.
People who have strong opinions or have strong moral codes often struggle living in foreign countries where people may not share the same opinions or moral codes. If this is you, you should try to think more about your situation, your relations to others and try to be more tolerant.
But, my biggest problem is with the Korean government and the Korean education system. The government issues visas and the educational system integrates people from half-way around the world (both literally and figuratively) without any proper cultural training and understanding of culture shock. As the invite-ees, they need to be more responsible, especially when you are dealing with young adults.
The government and the ministry of education should also need to be more understanding of the stresses and needs of people living in a foreign culture.
Educating yourself about Korea is not enough. (And, for that matter, books rarely prepare you for the real experience.) You also need to educate yourself in cross-cultural experiences and inter-cultural communication.
People living in other cultures generally have higher levels of stress. You also need to do more to deal with this. It will make you a lot less angrier, not that this 'anger' is not normal. It can be 'normal' if you are not doing the things necessary to deal with the stress of living in a foreign culture.
Good luck! I hope you make the most out of your Korean experience. |
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Wishmaster
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| Any Koreans about to enter the subway on the green line...they are just a bunch of rude and moronic fools. Get your forearms ready and assume a football stance like it is 4th and goal from the 1. |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: In my Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
There is generally three reactions to culture shock.
1) You think the other culture is great and better than yours.
2) You think the other culture is horrible and much worse than yours.
3) You think the other culture is what it is without any judgement.
Most people pass through all 3 stages in periodic shifts. At times, you are like this is great. Other times, you are like what the heck all the time. And, still at other times, you are like whatever.
If you can, stay in #3 as much as possible. Some people call it being open minded about things.
People who have strong opinions or have strong moral codes often struggle living in foreign countries where people may not share the same opinions or moral codes. |
I have strong opinions and moral code (bloody was an Ethics major in university) and I eschew openmindedness on matters of value as emptyheadedness. But I also don't see it as my place to judge when I am not a part of the society but simply a relatively short-term guest. I have neither the power, position, responsibility or inclination to change a culture that is inherently alien to me. My people and this people diverged on the developmental-evolutionary stage countless centuries ago and it would be pretty presumptious of me to judge the whole world by my society's standards. This IS a different place and I knew that before going in.
As long as one thinks #3 "You think the other culture is what it is without any judgement" there is no major slippage to #1 or #2. Oh sure, some things make one shake one's head in disbelief and frustration, but the source of that conflict isn't a perception of THEY needing to change, but of oneself needing to adjust to them temporarily. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:03 am Post subject: |
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I wasn't an angrier person until matthews_world reminded me of how frustrating it was trying to beat D�j� Vu on NES when I was a kid...
I'm pretty sure culture shock is more of a case of:
1. Koreans prefer chopsticks over forks and that's great!
2. Koreans prefer chopsticks over forks and that's ridiculous.
3. Koreans prefer chopsticks over forks and that's just how it is.
all that on a larger scale of course...
Whereas I believe the OP is referring to things that are specifically detrimental to you that you wouldn't expect to happen where you're from (such as someone coughing in your face, as a previous poster mentioned).
I'm un-jaded, as of yet... |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Wishmaster wrote: |
| Any Koreans about to enter the subway on the green line...they are just a bunch of rude and moronic fools. Get your forearms ready and assume a football stance like it is 4th and goal from the 1. |
I always hear about the cattle like stampede into the subways and I always hear foreigners that claim they just bulldoze everyone out of the way, but like the Loch Ness Monster I have yet to see this.
That's not to say I don't see the occasional ajumma or ajosshi make a mockery of any sense or order, but its not the stampede its claimed to be either.
If it were there would be more delays at each stop and a lot more horror stories. |
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stuff_4_sale
Joined: 02 Sep 2010
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| Any Koreans about to enter the subway on the green line...they are just a bunch of rude and moronic fools. Get your forearms ready and assume a football stance like it is 4th and goal from the 1. |
I always hear about the cattle like stampede into the subways and I always hear foreigners that claim they just bulldoze everyone out of the way, but like the Loch Ness Monster I have yet to see this.
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try going to dongdaemun history and culture park in rush hour. if you are standing in line and you dont push, you might not even make the first train. ive seen so many ajummas try to squeeze on a packed subway car that one of them actually gets sandwiched by the sliding door... |
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Hotwire
Joined: 29 Aug 2010 Location: Multiverse
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| Any Koreans about to enter the subway on the green line...they are just a bunch of rude and moronic fools. Get your forearms ready and assume a football stance like it is 4th and goal from the 1. |
I always hear about the cattle like stampede into the subways and I always hear foreigners that claim they just bulldoze everyone out of the way, but like the Loch Ness Monster I have yet to see this.
That's not to say I don't see the occasional ajumma or ajosshi make a mockery of any sense or order, but its not the stampede its claimed to be either.
If it were there would be more delays at each stop and a lot more horror stories. |
You should see me with my umbrella under my arm, projecting outwardly like a lance.... Truly, honestly, Koreans still walk straight into it and catch a gutful... |
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Wishmaster
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Well, Mr. Rails, it appears that you've never take the green line. If you did, you would know how disgusting the manners exhibited by the sheeple. The green line is like the 7th circle of hell. Oh, and I can assure you, that I have bulldozed many a Korean that has gotten in my way. No, bulldoze isn't the right word...steamrolled might be better. Many, many times. Hey, I had no choice. It is either them or me... |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Wishmaster wrote: |
| Well, Mr. Rails, it appears that you've never take the green line. If you did, you would know how disgusting the manners exhibited by the sheeple. The green line is like the 7th circle of hell. Oh, and I can assure you, that I have bulldozed many a Korean that has gotten in my way. No, bulldoze isn't the right word...steamrolled might be better. Many, many times. Hey, I had no choice. It is either them or me... |
I've taken the Green Line plenty of times.
I would say that it seems at every stop there is one car entrance where a conflux of ajummas creates something that resembles the cartoons where people are fighting and all you see is a dust cloud. I try to stick next to sleepily shuffling salarymen types and skittish women worried about any man rubbing up against them.
But most of it its people getting off, then people struggling to get in but nothing that necessitates leveling ones shoulder and knocking people to the ground or throwing elbows or using lances.
Then again I'm really nimble in a crowd so I can just agilely slip through.
I get that its a lot of people getting off and on at once in a short time span, but seriously? Leveling People? A mob breaking through? 95% of my time on the Green line has been uneventful. |
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Wishmaster
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Okay...cool. |
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redaxe
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| stuff_4_sale wrote: |
try going to dongdaemun history and culture park in rush hour. if you are standing in line and you dont push, you might not even make the first train. ive seen so many ajummas try to squeeze on a packed subway car that one of them actually gets sandwiched by the sliding door... |
LOL at the new name "Dongdaemun History and Culture Park." So pretentious. I refuse to call it that, to me it will always be "Dongdaemun Stadium." |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
People living in other cultures generally have higher levels of stress. You also need to do more to deal with this. It will make you a lot less angrier, not that this 'anger' is not normal. It can be 'normal' if you are not doing the things necessary to deal with the stress of living in a foreign culture.
Good luck! I hope you make the most out of your Korean experience. |
In support of this: Can [homogenous but foreign communities] make us crazy? |
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discostu333
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Short answer; no, Korea hasn't made me an angrier person.
In fact, Korea has made me a very patient, calm person. I can imagine without patience and calmness it would be very difficult indeed to survive here as a Westerner.
While I have thoroughly enjoyed my time here, enjoyed meeting new people (mostly Westerners, I'll come to this in a minute), tasting new food, experiencing a very unique culture, I can't really say Korea or Koreans are particularly endearing.
Before all the apologists berate me, let me remind you. This is an internet forum and a place for the exchange of opinions. This is my personal opinion of Korea.
I pride myself in being a very liberal, open minded individual. This is the way I was brought up and educated in England. It's very easy in my culture to find your own niche and be your own person. Korean society is the polar opposite of this. I've found it incredibly interesting living here. It has made me reassess a lot of my own views on life, culture and society.
You can't have a debate with most Koreans. This is not an issue of different language, this is not a debating society. Confucious say "Follow the code set down by your ancestors and don't question it". Many Koreans are in denial of the problems in their country, while they are eager to point out the problems in others. Koreans aren't well traveled, yet they make grand statements about issues in other countries. You can't compromise with a Korean, because their social hierarchy is either or, no middle ground. Korea is a nation of clones, there are very few individuals here. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Happy Warrior,
That is a very interesting article. Thanks! |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| discostu333 wrote: |
You can't have a debate with most Koreans. This is not an issue of different language, this is not a debating society. Confucious say "Follow the code set down by your ancestors and don't question it". Many Koreans are in denial of the problems in their country, while they are eager to point out the problems in others. Koreans aren't well traveled, yet they make grand statements about issues in other countries. You can't compromise with a Korean, because their social hierarchy is either or, no middle ground. Korea is a nation of clones, there are very few individuals here. |
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Interesting way of looking at things.
However, I think you may be confusing lack of debate with debating in a different manner and ignoring critical cultural behaviors that affect how Koreans view debate.
I think you also confuse how Koreans view debate in PUBLIC as opposed to debate in PRIVATE with FRIENDS AND FAMILY and that you did not consider the impact that nunchi and face have on social interactions.
As a simple example, my Father in law is a very vocal man. He has numerous gripes with how the Korean government runs the country and how chaebols cheat the middle class.
This vocal man is quite different depending on whom he interacts with.
With his buddies playing cards in the courtyard, it is debate central, they go at each other and ideas are tossed about, arguments erupt.
Put my father in law in a group of people he is less familiar with or even better in a more formal setting and he is far less vocal. He still has his convictions but nunchi and social norms come into play here.
The same was true between him and me initially. He did not say much, but a year or two later we had superb debates about Korea and Canada, government policies and so on.
You made an interesting point but I get the sense that for the sake of convenience you simplified things.
Cheers |
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