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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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 Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Because they realize religion is a mostly private affair not meant to be thrust on people, just like educated Jews and Christians. Also there are many moderate writers for magazines like Foreign Policy, The Atlantic, etc. Reza Aslan is one of the best. |
Unless they want their religion to get dragged through the mud by the intemperate forces amongst their co-adherents, then educated Muslims who can see the huge overreaction amongst the Islamic world to the actions of a lone nut for what it is, need to come out and condemn it in stronger terms. I strongly suspect that they don't because amongst Muslims, they would represent the distinct minority. |
They do, but they write for educated people in more academic type publications. They aren't an interesting story for the afternoon news if you know what I mean. |
Have you got a link to any decent articles written by a Muslim strongly criticising the reaction of the Islamic world to Pastor Jones' plans? Thanks in advance. |
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Wai Mian
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Location: WE DIDNT
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:33 am Post subject: |
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All I can see here are Muslims attacking Islamic terrorists. There is nothing new there. I asked for a link to a piece where a Muslim explicitly denounces the Islamic reaction to Pastor Jones' proposed Koran burning. Something along the following lines for example:
'The response to Pastor Jones' proposed Koran burning in the Islamic world, including Muslim heads of state, was a complete overreaction. Pastor Jones heads a tiny church, which is totally unrepresentative of the American mainstream. These Muslims drag our religion through the dirt by acting so disproportionately to such an insignificant figure.'
Now I am not suggesting that such an article doesn't exist, but if somebody makes such claims, isn't the onus on them to provide links to such pieces? That way, I could walk away from the debate and think to myself, 'it's reassuring to think that there are Muslims who agree with me'. Thanks in advance for any such link that is forthcoming. |
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Wai Mian
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Location: WE DIDNT
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
All I can see here are Muslims attacking Islamic terrorists. There is nothing new there. I asked for a link to a piece where a Muslim explicitly denounces the Islamic reaction to Pastor Jones' proposed Koran burning. |
Personally I don't think this is a necessary or even likely concern of a moderate Muslim, certainly not to the point of a being a litmus test for the overall health of the debate about radicalism within the Muslim world. I'm sure moderates don't like to see this reaction but I wouldn't see what good it would do them within their own communities to make such a statement, it would probably be viewed (with good reason IMO) as a PR stunt to make the West happy. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Because they realize religion is a mostly private affair not meant to be thrust on people, just like educated Jews and Christians. Also there are many moderate writers for magazines like Foreign Policy, The Atlantic, etc. Reza Aslan is one of the best. |
Unless they want their religion to get dragged through the mud by the intemperate forces amongst their co-adherents, then educated Muslims who can see the huge overreaction amongst the Islamic world to the actions of a lone nut for what it is, need to come out and condemn it in stronger terms. I strongly suspect that they don't because amongst Muslims, they would represent the distinct minority. |
They do, but they write for educated people in more academic type publications. They aren't an interesting story for the afternoon news if you know what I mean. |
Exactly. A muslim not frothing at the mouth doesn't make good copy. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Most educated muslims, just like Christians, don't take their Holy Book seriously. |
I wouldn't put it that way.
Especially considering that the Bible and the Qu'ran have one important difference. The Qu'ran is the word of God. The Bible is merely divinely inspired. |
Well I have had many conversations with muslims from many areas of the world, and on quite a few occasions I have heard muslims from places like Oman or Libya say stuff like "a lot of stuff in the Koran applied to those times when the Prophet was alive." There's this idea that society evolves and what was progress in the 6th Century can be considered backward today. In their minds, the Prophet was dealing with a lot of savage desert hicks from the 6th century - and a lot of his prescriptions for that time were appropriate to that very harsh and brutal environment, and now (that humans have advanced) they are not. This doesn't appear to conflict with their belief in the Prophet as a messenger of God. But they see him as (a very great) man, not a divine creature like 'the son of God' as Christians view Jesus. And so, in their opinion, he did what he had to do in those times. And so these muslims concern themselves with the 'spirit of the law' not the 'letter of the law.'
For example, there is a school of thought in Islam that Mohammed was trying to put female equality into motion and that those that went after him should have been building on that, but that instead many practioners of Islam have failed to understand Mohammed's intentions, and have kept women down in contradiction to what he was trying to acheive. Remember that what he did for women was quite extraordinary in its time. He gave women inheritance rights, for example. Something quite unheard of at that point of the space/time continuum. Christian women had no such right. Critics point out that women only get half what their brothers get - but in those times women got NOTHING AT ALL - and Mohammed's insistance that they were in fact entitled to anything was quite shocking and revolutionary in its time. Female babies were regularly killed at birth, and women were considered chattel. Mohammed preached passionately against this. And so, according to this school of thought, if you are against equal rights and mainstream feminism, you are against what the Prophet was out to achieve. They believe muslims were supposed to be building on what Mohammed had started - not rigidly applying (what were once progressive) laws formulated in the 6th century to modern times. I believe that Ed Hussain is a proponent of such reasoning.
They also point out to the Prophet's nurturing of Aisha as a scholar and political figure as proof that God believes that women should be allowed to fulfill their intellectual potential and have a voice in politics and society - just as men do.
Muslims can be every bit as flexible in their interpretation of 'God's word' as Christians. |
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