| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:12 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| but it would be fine if there were mexican's or something, right? |
No, it wouldn't.
| Quote: |
| ...focusing on nationality just makes you all look like Hitler's henchment |
Soju is the devil dude. Turn it down a tad. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Capo wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| While there might should be a due process for state assassination (I am undecided), considering that the American in question, is committing treason by actively encouraging terrorism against America, I don't think that Obama is horribly out of line with this program. |
You don't think it's out of line for the government to kill American citizens in non-combat situations without a trial? Look at the justification you used: actively encouraging terrorism against America. Do you really think the government should have the right to murder any citizen it feels is "encouraging terrorism against America" without so much as a trial? Hell, I don't want the government killing people for this even after a trial. |
Right. And who is a terrorist? The DHS has said that constitutionalists and Ron Paul supporters are 'potential terrorists'. In Penn the government suggested that anti-war protesters were terrorists. Shit, that's me three times over.
The state should not have the right to kill her own citizens. |
but it would be fine if there were mexican's or something, right? People who focus on the fact they are Americans are missing the point of what debate should be about.
The reason to assinate is because they are deemed a threat to others if they are alive, focusing on nationality just makes you all look like Hitler's henchment or something like being an American makes your superior or maybe just a bunch of hicks. |
Hitler's henchmen? Really? And many of us on this thread are against assasination period, regardless of nationality. Thanks for jumping to conclusions though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
El Exigente
Joined: 10 Sep 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Konglishman wrote: |
| While there might should be a due process for state assassination (I am undecided), considering that the American in question, is committing treason by actively encouraging terrorism against America, ... |
We don't even know that. You are willing just to take the government's word for it?
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Yeah f that whole constitution thing! I mean hello, it was written over 200 years ago, what use is it to us in this moden era?? |
You forgot the  . There are always some who will think you're serious.
| Capo wrote: |
| but it would be fine if there were mexican's or something, right? People who focus on the fact they are Americans are missing the point of what debate should be about. |
We are talking about the American government that should not have the authority to kill American citizens. See how that works? No country should be able to kill its own citizens.
| Quote: |
| The reason to assinate is because they are deemed a threat to others if they are alive, focusing on nationality just makes you all look like Hitler's henchment or something like being an American makes your superior or maybe just a bunch of hicks. |
Imprisoning them after trial would also neutralize the supposed threat. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Capo wrote: |
| but it would be fine if there were mexican's or something, right? |
No, it wouldn't be fine in my estimation. I don't want my government going around assassinating people in the first place.
| Capo wrote: |
| People who focus on the fact they are Americans are missing the point of what debate should be about. |
It's possible to have a focused discussion about whether or not it's acceptable for a government to assassinate its own citizens without implicitly condoning the assassination of non-citizens. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Capo
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Fox"]
| Capo wrote: |
It's possible to have a focused discussion about whether or not it's acceptable for a government to assassinate its own citizens without implicitly condoning the assassination of non-citizens. |
well yes it is possible to debate anything.
However, focusing on them being American sounds like the Nazi idea of racial superiority to me.
Why not just debate state assination. The threat from a person doesn't change based on their nationality.... it is down to the individual, thus the method of dealing with the threat should be no different (assinate or not assinating and pursuing other methods). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Capo"]
| Fox wrote: |
| Capo wrote: |
It's possible to have a focused discussion about whether or not it's acceptable for a government to assassinate its own citizens without implicitly condoning the assassination of non-citizens. |
well yes it is possible to debate anything.
However, focusing on them being American sounds like the Nazi idea of racial superiority to me. |
That says more about you than it does about the statement in question, Capo. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| A nazi reference is totally inappropriate until at least the tenth page of a thread. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| El Exigente wrote: |
[q
We are talking about the American government that should not have the authority to kill American citizens. See how that works? No country should be able to kill its own citizens.
|
So if we have bank robbers who take a bunch of customers hostage and who state that they will shoot one every so often if their demands are not met, the government should not have a SWAT team standing by ready to move in and save the hostages' lives?
We should just let them walk away with all the money and kill as many hostages as they like...because "no country should be able to kill its own citizens". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Capo wrote: |
Why not just debate state assination...(assinate or not assinating and pursuing other methods). |
I don't wanna come off like I think I'm racially superior because my passport says "USA" on it, but I'm pretty sure "assinate" isn't a word. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Capo
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ok i messed up on spelling, but that's not the issue. stick to the debate please. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Capo
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Let me pose the question another way.
Is it OK to assassinate Biun Laden?
Would it be OK to assassinate Bin Laden if he was an American? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Let me pose the question another way.
Is it OK to assassinate Biun Laden? |
I don't like killing in general, but I suppose the gov't would be able to make the case that it was justified (with him being labeled as a foreign terrorist combatant).
| Quote: |
| Would it be OK to assassinate Bin Laden if he was an American? |
IMO, absolutely not (unless it was the only way to prevent the imminent loss of others' lives). He should be arrested and tried.
I don't really like the question as I have serious reservations about the whole 9/11 gov't version of events, but I'll throw caution to the wind and hit 'submit'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Capo wrote: |
Is it OK to assassinate Biun Laden?
Would it be OK to assassinate Bin Laden if he was an American?
|
No. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
El Exigente
Joined: 10 Sep 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| El Exigente wrote: |
[q
We are talking about the American government that should not have the authority to kill American citizens. See how that works? No country should be able to kill its own citizens.
|
So if we have bank robbers who take a bunch of customers hostage and who state that they will shoot one every so often if their demands are not met, the government should not have a SWAT team standing by ready to move in and save the hostages' lives?
We should just let them walk away with all the money and kill as many hostages as they like...because "no country should be able to kill its own citizens". |
My vote for non-sequitur of the month. 
| Capo wrote: |
Is it OK to assassinate Biun Laden?
Would it be OK to assassinate Bin Laden if he was an American? |
This nonchalant acceptance of assassination as a routine way of doing business is appalling.
And just why would you want to assassinate him anyway? Do you realize that he is not even wanted by the FBI for the attacks of 9/11? That's right, because they have NO evidence to link him to the crime.
But by no means, guys, let me dissuade you form getting your bloodlustfest going.
| Caniff wrote: |
| I don't wanna come off like I think I'm racially superior because my passport says "USA" on it, but I'm pretty sure "assinate" isn't a word. |
I guess you missed the commercial:
| Quote: |
| More than one assinate prefers Charmin. |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
If you took away a State's right to kill then you would throw the world into annarchy.
There is no viable alternative to the system of states that currently exist. The only alternative is some other organisation of groups of power who are able to exert force on others - using the ability to kill.
Having states that have the right to kill someone is not a perfect system but if you took that away what would you have? Your country would not be able to defend itself against any physical agression because any military defence would likely kill people. Which you say is disallowed.
Therefore states would fall to whoever has the biggest guns and America would be ruled by vigilante armies. So would the rest of the world. If you had your way of course.
It is a sad but true fact that a state's ability to kill people is the ONLY thing that keeps you safe at night. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
