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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| From what I understand the Japanese suffered significant losses fighting the Chinese. It seems by 1945 most of their units in China were more war-weary/filled with 2nd rate soldiers than 'crack legions'. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Last edited by shinramyun on Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:45 pm; edited 6 times in total |
Are you bugging out over this topic? |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| shinramyun wrote: |
| Like I said before, reading comprehension? Japan and Soviets were already having a border skirmish from 1938-1939, it even lasted longer even after the great purge in Red Army. Zhukov was in charge of Far east russia and fighting japanese army until he was recalled to Moscow to fend off the Germans in 1941. After 1941, Zhukov was in charge of invading germany. Another soviet general named Aleksandr Vasilevsky was in charge of invading japanese territories. |
And what is your point? The Soviet Union was not actually at war with Japan until near the end, after Japan had been fighting the US for years. Your babble about a couple undeclared border skirmishes is irrelevant.
| Quote: |
| More like try to use your tiny brain. There is this thing call logic, which you seems to be lacking. All historical records show that the japanese army stationed in east asia was getting the supplies from factories built in china? Why is that, you ask? Why, because it saves more gas to travel from japan to mainland china with supplies and war equipments. It's more economical to build factories in territories like Manchukuo and Nanjing to fuel the japanese army in main land, which they obviously did. Most of factories in japan was busy creating carriers, battleships to fuel the navy war machine. |
Japan was at war with China throughout this time. The Japanese army in China was not self sufficient. In the first place, the troops were paid in Japanese currency. The fact that you're even attempting to argue that the Japanese army in Asia was able to sustain itself outside of direct support from Japan is pretty comical.  (not to mention you've posted zero evidence whatsoever).
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Japan claiming Dokdo is a foreign land, also BTW, this comes straight from a japanese history professor.
"Measuring 115 cm by 123 cm, one map was produced by the Japanese Army in 1877 and depicts the country's sovereign territory in detail, but does not contain Dokdo. In 1889, Japanese surveyors created the country's first-ever map on a 200,000:1 scale compiled from all of the maps that had been produced until that time, but even that makes no reference to Dokdo, Hosaka said." |
The Japanese terra nullius claim was in 1905. Therefore the argument you've provided is moot. And where's the link? (btw, whether the professor is Japanese or not is completely irrelevant). Next.
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| You are a classic case of a naive fool who have been spoon fed by white washed japanese history. You, sir, are ignorant of WW2 history. There is no arguing about the fact that japan was lucky. I even provided historical details to prove my point. How old are you? You can't even come up with a descent historical facts to back up your sad excuse of arguments. Sorry, but my awesome emoticons have to do the justice. |
And when all else fails, they resort to ad hominems and handwaving. I've provided my rebuttal - feel free to try and provide one in turn. You're not doing a very convincing job, troll. |
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shinramyun
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="visitorq"]
| shinramyun wrote: |
| Like I said before, reading comprehension? Japan and Soviets were already having a border skirmish from 1938-1939, it even lasted longer even after the great purge in Red Army. Zhukov was in charge of Far east russia and fighting japanese army until he was recalled to Moscow to fend off the Germans in 1941. After 1941, Zhukov was in charge of invading germany. Another soviet general named Aleksandr Vasilevsky was in charge of invading japanese territories. |
| Quote: |
| And what is your point? The Soviet Union was not at war with Japan until near the end, after Japan had been fighting the US for years. Your babble about undeclared border skirmishes is irrelevant. |
Are you stupid? They only formally declared war on japan near the end after countless number of border skirmishes and battles. The fact that japan even invaded Soviet territory during the Battles of Khalkhin Gol proves that japan and soviets were already fighting even before US entered war. You are hopeless.
| Quote: |
| More like try to use your tiny brain. There is this thing call logic, which you seems to be lacking. All historical records show that the japanese army stationed in east asia was getting the supplies from factories built in china? Why is that, you ask? Why, because it saves more gas to travel from japan to mainland china with supplies and war equipments. It's more economical to build factories in territories like Manchukuo and Nanjing to fuel the japanese army in main land, which they obviously did. Most of factories in japan was busy creating carriers, battleships to fuel the navy war machine. |
| Quote: |
| You're really not very bright (or maybe just young)... Japan was at war with China throughout this time. The Japanese army in China was not self sufficient. In the first place, the troops were paid in Japanese currency. The fact that you're even attempting to argue that the Japanese army in Asia was able to sustain itself outside of direct support from Japan is pretty comical. (not to mention you've posted zero evidence whatsoever). |
And you must be a massive tool in denial. Japan conquered much of territory, but not all of chinese land. Of course they were still in war. But the fact that japan built factories in the conquered lands to fuel the supplies for land army is what happened. Manchuria was used as a supply base, there were factories built in northern korea.
What are you 10? You need proofs for historical facts? Try reading a history text book about War in Pacific at your local library, son.
| Quote: |
Japan claiming Dokdo is a foreign land, also BTW, this comes straight from a japanese history professor.
"Measuring 115 cm by 123 cm, one map was produced by the Japanese Army in 1877 and depicts the country's sovereign territory in detail, but does not contain Dokdo. In 1889, Japanese surveyors created the country's first-ever map on a 200,000:1 scale compiled from all of the maps that had been produced until that time, but even that makes no reference to Dokdo, Hosaka said." |
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| The Japanese terra nullius claim was in 1905. Therefore the argument you've provided is moot. And where's the link? (btw, whether the professor is Japanese or not is completely irrelevant). Next. |
so says the troll who've not given any source. what japanese terra nullius? I'm not aware of bunch of japanese whitewashed lies from their history books. Even japanese history professor is admitting that their own government is full of lies. But then again, you would throw any bs at me to protect japan, yes?
| Quote: |
| You are a classic case of a naive fool who have been spoon fed by white washed japanese history. You, sir, are ignorant of WW2 history. There is no arguing about the fact that japan was lucky. I even provided historical details to prove my point. How old are you? You can't even come up with a descent historical facts to back up your sad excuse of arguments. Sorry, but my awesome emoticons have to do the justice. |
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| And when all else fails, they resort to ad hominems and handwaving. I've provided my rebuttal - feel free to try and provide one in turn. You're not doing a very convincing job, troll. |
What a comeback. Seriously. You deserve a cookie for that one. When all fails, use this tactic "lol you are doing a horrible job, keep trying". Grow up, troll from asiafinest.  |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Shinrams, what's your prediction for the future of Northeast Asia? |
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shinramyun
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| Shinrams, what's your prediction for the future of Northeast Asia? |
I don't care about the future. china sucks and will continue to act like bunch of arrogant sobs, japan will most likely ask south korea to join and form a military and economic alliance to counter china and north korea, mongolia will be just... mongolia. south east asian nations will either suck up to china or just don't bother with the whole mess.
east asia = balkans during early 19th century |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| shinramyun wrote: |
Like I said before, reading comprehension? Japan and Soviets were already having a border skirmish from 1938-1939, it even lasted longer even after the great purge in Red Army. Zhukov was in charge of Far east russia and fighting japanese army until he was recalled to Moscow to fend off the Germans in 1941. After 1941, Zhukov was in charge of invading germany. Another soviet general named Aleksandr Vasilevsky was in charge of invading japanese territories.
| Quote: |
| And what is your point? The Soviet Union was not at war with Japan until near the end, after Japan had been fighting the US for years. Your babble about undeclared border skirmishes is irrelevant. |
Are you stupid? They only formally declared war on japan near the end after countless number of border skirmishes and battles. The fact that japan even invaded Soviet territory during the Battles of Khalkhin Gol proves that japan and soviets were already fighting even before US entered war. You are hopeless. |
Right, so to sum up: your initial claim was that the Soviets "steamrolled" through Manchuria and laid waste to the Japanese. When I point out that this was at the end of the war after the Japanese had been devastated in the war against the US, you counter by saying the Japanese had been fighting the Soviets all along. 
In fact the border skirmishes were meaningless. The Japanese got pushed back a mere 16 km from the Manchukuo border. And this was before the Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact was signed. There is no indication whatsoever that the Soviets could have pushed the Japanese out in a full-scale war prior to Pearl Harbor.
| Quote: |
| And you must be a massive tool in denial. Japan conquered much of territory, but not all of chinese land. Of course they were still in war. But the fact that japan built factories in the conquered lands to fuel the supplies for land army is what happened. Manchuria was used as a supply base, there were factories built in northern korea. |
Japanese troops, supplies, money, and especially munitions came from Japan. Japanese factories on the mainland would have merely supplemented the war effort. Your argument that the Japanese troops could operate self-sufficiently after Japan had been heavily bombed is laughable. Plus you haven't posted a single shred of evidence to support that claim.
| Quote: |
| What are you 10? You need proofs for historical facts? Try reading a history text book about War in Pacific at your local library, son. |
You're a joke. I bet you haven't even read such a basic book yourself. Hopefully you'll get the chance before you graduate from high-school.
| Quote: |
| so says the troll who've not given any source. what japanese terra nullius? I'm not aware of bunch of japanese whitewashed lies from their history books. Even japanese history professor is admitting that their own government is full of lies. But then again, you would throw any bs at me to protect japan, yes? |
If that's all you have to add, then you lose the debate. That Japan made a terra nullius claim in 1905 is not even debated by the Korean governments. It's official and everyone knows it (you can try and debunk it on it's own merits by giving evidence that Takeshima was Korean territory prior to 1905, but that's it). If you weren't even aware of the terra nullius claim (as you admit), then you're not worthy to attempt the debate. |
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Wishmaster
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, that's it, Ramenboy, the Japanese "got lucky"...lol  It had nothing to do with intelligence, strategy, planning. No, it was luck. Judging from your name, you are probably pissed at the fact that Japan owned Korea and there isn't a damn thing that Korea can do about it now or in the future. And I can tell because when I mention that Japan is going to evenutally get nukes, your response was, "well, Korea will get nukes too." That tells me exactly about your viewpoint. Like many, you are scared because of the possibility that Japan will have(or possible has) nukes because then they aren't so easily controlled/emasculated like they are now. Perhaps those memories of Asian conquest hit a bit home, eh? You won't admit it because it is subconscious. Korea 1, Korea 2, China...fear what Japan can do if the gauntlet is thrown down. Do you really think that the world would ever just let China attack Japan? Nuclear weapons assure that that won't happen. Besides, both countries mutually need each other. It is all bluster by China. You seem to think that China would roll Japan if conflict ever happened, but you would be wrong. Japan would be able to inflict a massive amount of damage on the Chinese. But again, nothing will happen. Nations are connected now...things are symbiotic, unlike in the 1930's.
Oh, and I love your comment stating that Japan isn't allowed to have weapons. Do you believe everything you hear? Do you actually think the US is reducing its nuclear stockpile? Do you really think the Russians will do the same? Do you think that Israel has nuclear weapons? Pssst...officially, they don't. He...officially. Just like Japan supposedly doesn't have weapons? But do you truly know? Plenty of ways to hide and disguise. Japan is surrounded by enemies. Nuclear weapons are a deterrent. It is only natural that Japan has them now or gets them in the future. But be assured, it is only a matter of time.
Still funny that your immediate response to Japan having nukes is that "Korea can have them to."  Scared of Japan there, Ramenboy? Pretty defensive. Oh, and I love the fact that you edited 6 times...that tells everything about the kind of person that you are. This topic hit a little close to home? |
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shinramyun
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
Right, so to sum up: your initial claim was that the Soviets "steamrolled" through Manchuria and laid waste to the Japanese. When I point out that this was at the end of the war after the Japanese had been devastated in the war against the US, you counter by saying the Japanese had been fighting the Soviets all along. |
Since when does border skirmish = not fighting? Common sense failed you once again. And in fact the soviets steam rolled through japanese territories up to north korea. Be denial about it.
| Quote: |
| In fact the border skirmishes were meaningless. |
What are you now, an expert in military and strategy in WW2? LOL border skirmish = meaningless? What a 'tard.
| Quote: |
| The Japanese got pushed back a mere 16 km from the Manchukuo border. And this was before the Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact was signed. There is no indication whatsoever that the Soviets could have pushed the Japanese out in a full-scale war prior to Pearl Harbor. |
I've never said the soviets pushed japanese out before 1945. READING COMPRESION FAILED YOU 3 TIMES NOW.
| Quote: |
| And you must be a massive tool in denial. Japan conquered much of territory, but not all of chinese land. Of course they were still in war. But the fact that japan built factories in the conquered lands to fuel the supplies for land army is what happened. Manchuria was used as a supply base, there were factories built in northern korea. |
| Quote: |
| Japanese troops, supplies, money, and especially munitions came from Japan. Japanese factories on the mainland would have merely supplemented the war effort. Your argument that the Japanese troops could operate self-sufficiently after Japan had been heavily bombed is laughable. Plus you haven't posted a single shred of evidence to support that claim. |
So says the guy who couldn't provide a single source to back up his arguments. Pot calling kettle black?
The factories built in occupied territories could've sufficiently supported the war effort in mainland china. Just because you don't think it did doesn't mean it didn't happen.
| Quote: |
| What are you 10? You need proofs for historical facts? Try reading a history text book about War in Pacific at your local library, son. |
| Quote: |
| You're a joke. I bet you haven't even read such a basic book yourself. Hopefully you'll get the chance before you graduate from high-school. |
As you are my internet troll friend. I've read plenty of WW2 books to fully support my arguments. You in otherhand, claims that you are an expert about japan, yet all you've spewed in last posts are bunch of bullsh*ts.
| Quote: |
| so says the troll who've not given any source. what japanese terra nullius? I'm not aware of bunch of japanese whitewashed lies from their history books. Even japanese history professor is admitting that their own government is full of lies. But then again, you would throw any bs at me to protect japan, yes? |
| Quote: |
| If that's all you have to add, then you lose the debate. That Japan made a terra nullius claim in 1905 is not even debated by the Korean governments. It's official and everyone knows it (you can try and debunk it on it's own merits by giving evidence that Takeshima was Korean territory prior to 1905, but that's it). If you weren't even aware of the terra nullius claim (as you admit), then you're not worthy to attempt the debate. |
Like I said, SOURCE? where are you getting this information? Is it another whitewashed lie from japan? You know japanese histories cant be trusted since they recently accepted that they distorted their own history.
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shinramyun
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Wishmaster wrote: |
Yeah, that's it, Ramenboy, the Japanese "got lucky"...lol It had nothing to do with intelligence, strategy, planning. No, it was luck. Judging from your name, you are probably pissed at the fact that Japan owned Korea and there isn't a damn thing that Korea can do about it now or in the future. And I can tell because when I mention that Japan is going to evenutally get nukes, your response was, "well, Korea will get nukes too." That tells me exactly about your viewpoint. Like many, you are scared because of the possibility that Japan will have(or possible has) nukes because then they aren't so easily controlled/emasculated like they are now. Perhaps those memories of Asian conquest hit a bit home, eh? You won't admit it because it is subconscious. Korea 1, Korea 2, China...fear what Japan can do if the gauntlet is thrown down. Do you really think that the world would ever just let China attack Japan? Nuclear weapons assure that that won't happen. Besides, both countries mutually need each other. It is all bluster by China. You seem to think that China would roll Japan if conflict ever happened, but you would be wrong. Japan would be able to inflict a massive amount of damage on the Chinese. But again, nothing will happen. Nations are connected now...things are symbiotic, unlike in the 1930's.
Oh, and I love your comment stating that Japan isn't allowed to have weapons. Do you believe everything you hear? Do you actually think the US is reducing its nuclear stockpile? Do you really think the Russians will do the same? Do you think that Israel has nuclear weapons? Pssst...officially, they don't. He...officially. Just like Japan supposedly doesn't have weapons? But do you truly know? Plenty of ways to hide and disguise. Japan is surrounded by enemies. Nuclear weapons are a deterrent. It is only natural that Japan has them now or gets them in the future. But be assured, it is only a matter of time.
Still funny that your immediate response to Japan having nukes is that "Korea can have them to." Scared of Japan there, Ramenboy? Pretty defensive. Oh, and I love the fact that you edited 6 times...that tells everything about the kind of person that you are. This topic hit a little close to home? |
Failboy finally replies. What, you were waiting for someone to back you up? Little wapanese? Judging by your last posts, you are probably another animefanboy crazy about japan and is willing to defend japan about anything. Go ahead, call me korean, call me go@k, because I'm not.
Japan was lucky. Their own luck ran out when they attacked pearl harbor.
ROFLMFAO you are the one who said japan is going to re establish old japanese empire-like army today. How about you stop dickrding japan for once and face the reality? China is the master of asia now, whether you japan sucker like it or not. Be denial about it all you want.
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x44/phyliaa/weeaboo.jpg
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/roflmfao.jpg
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| shinramyun wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
Right, so to sum up: your initial claim was that the Soviets "steamrolled" through Manchuria and laid waste to the Japanese. When I point out that this was at the end of the war after the Japanese had been devastated in the war against the US, you counter by saying the Japanese had been fighting the Soviets all along. |
Since when does border skirmish = not fighting? Common sense failed you once again. And in fact the soviets steam rolled through japanese territories up to north korea. Be denial about it.
| Quote: |
| In fact the border skirmishes were meaningless. |
What are you now, an expert in military and strategy in WW2? LOL border skirmish = meaningless? What a 'tard. |
Yeah, as already mentioned, the two countries signed a non-aggression pact after said border skirmishes, which was upheld until near the end of the war. So yeah, meaningless.
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| Quote: |
| The Japanese got pushed back a mere 16 km from the Manchukuo border. And this was before the Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact was signed. There is no indication whatsoever that the Soviets could have pushed the Japanese out in a full-scale war prior to Pearl Harbor. |
I've never said the soviets pushed japanese out before 1945. READING COMPRESION FAILED YOU 3 TIMES NOW. |
You were suggesting that the Soviets had been fighting the Japanese from the very start, all the way through WWII, "steamrolling" through. You forget about the non-aggression treaty that was signed immediately after the border skirmishes. Sorry, but you fail, completely.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| And you must be a massive tool in denial. Japan conquered much of territory, but not all of chinese land. Of course they were still in war. But the fact that japan built factories in the conquered lands to fuel the supplies for land army is what happened. Manchuria was used as a supply base, there were factories built in northern korea. |
| Quote: |
| Japanese troops, supplies, money, and especially munitions came from Japan. Japanese factories on the mainland would have merely supplemented the war effort. Your argument that the Japanese troops could operate self-sufficiently after Japan had been heavily bombed is laughable. Plus you haven't posted a single shred of evidence to support that claim. |
So says the guy who couldn't provide a single source to back up his arguments. Pot calling kettle black? |
No. The original claim (that Japanese factories in China could fully support the Japanese effort, independent of supplies from Japan) was yours, not mine. You've given zero evidence.
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| The factories built in occupied territories could've sufficiently supported the war effort in mainland china. Just because you don't think it did doesn't mean it didn't happen. |
Yeah, except that this is meaningless speculation on your part, and is contradicted by what actually happened. The historical outcome itself refutes you. Man are you daft.
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| Quote: |
| What are you 10? You need proofs for historical facts? Try reading a history text book about War in Pacific at your local library, son. |
| Quote: |
| You're a joke. I bet you haven't even read such a basic book yourself. Hopefully you'll get the chance before you graduate from high-school. |
As you are my internet troll friend. I've read plenty of WW2 books to fully support my arguments. You in otherhand, claims that you are an expert about japan, yet all you've spewed in last posts are bunch of bullsh*ts. |
You've been refuted on all accounts.
| Quote: |
| Like I said, SOURCE? where are you getting this information? Is it another whitewashed lie from japan? You know japanese histories cant be trusted since they recently accepted that they distorted their own history. |
If you don't even know the absolute basics, stop wasting my time. It is common knowledge on all sides that Japan claimed the islets terra nullius in 1905. Quit embarrassing yourself, go google it if you're too ignorant to even know this. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| shinramyun wrote: |
More like not having enough babies. Aging problem in both SK and japan can be solved without any problem. Just make a mass promotion about having a baby and give them all kinds of benefits for having babies. Just like what Russia is doing today.
There. Problem solved. |
No. Studies show that providing incentives to have more children have failed everywhere they've been implemented. Nice try though. The only proven path for success is to make it easier for women to stay at home with their children in the early years (which can include providing flexible work hours so a woman doesn't stop working, just adjusts her schedule). |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| *I should say providing FINANCIAL incentives (such as tax breaks/credits, even a direct payment, etc) do not work. Providing a work place incentive does work though. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say the best way to encourage more kids is literally paying the parents enough to survive on the money they receive. So this means parents in any economic class could have kids. It doesn't have to be for 18 years but the first 5-10 years of the kids life. For each extra kid you get some extra money, but not the same amount as the first kid. However this would be extremely expensive to implement.
Or an unconditional basic income guarantee system where every single citizen gets the same amount of decent livable money from the government. Would love a brave government like Canada...hint...hint... implement this but will probably never see this within my lifetime. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
I'd say the best way to encourage more kids is literally paying the parents enough to survive on the money they receive. So this means parents in any economic class could have kids. It doesn't have to be for 18 years but the first 5-10 years of the kids life. For each extra kid you get some extra money, but not the same amount as the first kid. However this would be extremely expensive to implement.
Or an unconditional basic income guarantee system where every single citizen gets the same amount of decent livable money from the government. Would love a brave government like Canada...hint...hint... implement this but will probably never see this within my lifetime. |
Huh? You mean communism?? If Canada ever did that, it would be to the total ruination of Canada. |
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