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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| If democracy is defined, as Hannah Arendt did, by �the right to have rights� for an entire population within the state�s jurisdiction, the Israeli state cannot be considered a democratic one. |
Lesson of the story: making up new definitions for words makes proving any case incredibly easy.
Democracy is not the "the right to have rights." People can have rights in non-democratic governments, and democratic governments can eliminate rights. Democracy is just a form of decision making, and a pure democracy with no checks at all would probably actually be fairly deficient in terms of minority rights (which is why a good government checks democracy with other factors). |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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And while we are on the topic of divestment I hope that all the people calling for a boycott buy no items from Johnson and Johnson, or Microsoft or Intel or IBM or listen to Warren Buffett for investment advice.
http://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/227/is-israel-immune-from-the-global-market-turmoil
As the link shows Israel has nothing much to fear from a few ivory tower types yapping about a boycott.
There are some 80 venture firms already in Israel with nearly $10 billion in in investments and assets. I doubt they are willing to give that up.
So we can safely conclude that this boycott is alive only on paper. Long on rhetoric but short on effect. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| El Exigente wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Well when Israel controls what comes in and out it probably makes it simpler and cheaper to do so. |
Yeah, I guess that was as pretty silly question to begin with.
Eminent Scholar Ann Stoler Endorses Boycott of Israel
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As someone who has worked for some thirty years as a teacher and student of colonial studies� on comparative colonial situations, colonial histories, and the violent and subtle forms of governance on which colonial regimes rely, it would be difficult not to describe the Israeli state as a colonial one. It would be difficult not to recognize Israel�s past and ongoing illegal seizure of Palestinian land, the racialization of every aspect of daily life, and the large-scale and piecemeal demolition of Palestinian homes, destruction of livelihoods, and efforts to destroy the social and family fabric, as decimation by concerted and concentrated colonial design. These are the well-honed practices of regimes that define colonialisms and have flourished across the imperial globe. As with other colonial regimes, the Israeli state designates and redraws geographic borders, suspends Palestinian civil rights and arbitrarily transgresses what for Israelis are recognized and guarded as private space.
Israel is particular but it is not unique. Its techniques of occupation are based on unfounded uses of the legal apparatus of Israeli law. These are the practices of a colonial state committed to replacing and displacing a Palestinian population, and committed to its own expansion. That expansion is persistent, both surreptitious and blatant everyday: room by room in the old city of Jerusalem, house by house in the spread of settler communities, meter by meter as the placement of the Wall in the name of �security� cuts through homes and fields, and divides neighborhoods while it infringes further into legally recognized Palestinian territories. At issue is both a confiscation of history and a confiscation of the future possibilities of those who today find their bedding thrown on the streets in the middle of the night by Israeli settlers.
If democracy is defined, as Hannah Arendt did, by �the right to have rights� for an entire population within the state�s jurisdiction, the Israeli state cannot be considered a democratic one. Nor can a democracy be founded on the principle of expulsion and the creation of a diasporic population shorn of its land, belongings and citizenship � a principle avidly embraced by Israel since l948. For these reasons, I confirm my support for the BDS international boycott of those Israeli institutions that actively or passively accept a status quo that condones and expands the occupation, violates international law, enforces military control and denies Palestinian rights to self-determination.
Ann Laura Stoler
Willy Brandt Distinguished University Professor
Of Anthropology and Historical Studies
The New School for Social Research
New York, New York 10003
10 September 2010 |
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Unfortunately for Stoler the boycott is pretty much dead.
http://www.nationalpost.com/anti+Israel+boycott+campaign+study+failure/3259351/story.html
http://opiniojuris.org/2010/05/25/the-death-of-the-secondary-boycott-against-israel/
http://www.shoebat.com/blog/archives/355
The last link above is particularly telling. It would seem like the Palestinians themselves are their own worst enemy. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| It would seem like the Palestinians themselves are their own worst enemy. |
No, I'm quite sure the Israeli's are the Palestinians worst enemy. What with the white phosphorous and all. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
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| It would seem like the Palestinians themselves are their own worst enemy. |
No, I'm quite sure the Israeli's are the Palestinians worst enemy. What with the white phosphorous and all. |
Ah yes, that would be the white phosphorous that Jakob Kellenberger, the president of the International Red Cross said his delegation to Gaza found "no evidence" of civilians being injured by.
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2009/01/afp_falsely_ties_victim_to_whi_1.html |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
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| It would seem like the Palestinians themselves are their own worst enemy. |
No, I'm quite sure the Israeli's are the Palestinians worst enemy. What with the white phosphorous and all. |
An objective review of the evidence demonstrates that the Palestinians were better off under Israeli occupation than under Arab leaderships. In the 20th century at least, if we overlook the oil states, it's difficult to think of any other occasion when Muslim peoples prospered more, and certainly more rapidly, than Palestinian Arabs particularly in the late 60s/early 70s. It's funny when people refer to Israeli policy in Judea and Samaria as akin to Apartheid (the connotation intended as negative), when in fact Apartheid-era South Africa, in comparison to the homicidal and baby-raping mania of modern-day South Africa, seems an orderly society in comparison. The same is true of the Israeli occupation from 1967 to 1994 vis-a-vis today. Perhaps the real enemies of the Palestinians are Western progressives. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| The Arabs will produce a level of wealth relative to their capacity. It is no justification for colonization. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| It is no justification for colonization. |
Course it is. It's far better to live as a second class citizen in a prosperous apartheid state than live in a craphole run by a government that represents the will of the populace |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:40 am Post subject: |
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That is their decision to make.
And Israel isn't much of a country herself. And it is going to get worse and worse. The far----far right religious kooks will come to dominate. The only industry left will be Torah printing.
By your logic, the United States should colonize Israel to increase her wealth? Or, maybe the best run Western state should..Germany? |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not in favor of future colonizations. However, colonizations that have occurred already can be rationally defended. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| The West Bank is being colonized now. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| I think the Israelis are entitled to do as they please with the land won in the 1967 War, not least because it has been rejected as the basis for an Arab state several times. The Palestinians should live as second class citizens in a sectarian state, or else be expelled. There are no alternatives. The Israelis should kill everybody in Hamas, kill everybody in the Palestinian Authority and re-assert the state of affairs prior to the Oslo Accords. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Sergio, you're a decent guy but your opinion on this subject is indescribably vile.
We're being colonized too. It's for our survival, apparently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_a-25MhRuk&
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+Violences+%C3%A0+la+Techno+Parade+2010+&aq=f
You see, what is on display both in Sweden and in the West Bank is a supremacist mentality. This mentality is going to cause horrific conflict both in Europe and the Middle East. That woman knows it. The Zionists in the West Bank know it. They don't give a damn. They just don't care. It is impossible to wrap a sane mind around such insanity, but there it is. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
That is their decision to make.
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According to a 2006 survey 82% of Arab respondents (living in Israel said they would rather be a citizen of Israel then of any other country in the world.]
Maybe if the Palestinians stopped lobbing rockets and lived in peace they would enjoy their lives a lot more as well. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Is entertaining dictators worse than normalizing apartheid?
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| If artists boycotted Sun City, shouldn't they also boycott Tel Aviv? Why the outrage when Beyonce entertains Gaddafi, but not when Madonna, Lady Gaga, Rihanna, and so many more, entertain apartheid in Israel? |
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