Korean Job Discussion Forums

[nathanrutledge]

I think I just had an intervention with my coworkers!?!

I teach high school in a lower level school. I tell the kids at the beginning of the class that I want x number of volunteers to speak/read at the end of class, and that we will not leave the class until I have that number of students participate. I don't pick students for that portion of class (i do call on students throughout the class for simple question/answers, read this line, etc), I only want volunteers.

The students in one of my classes complained that it wasn't fair that they had to stay after the bell, so ALL of my coworkers got together and approached me at my desk saying that I shouldn't do that, and instead I should give them pluses and minuses. What are those worth, you ask? Absolutely nothing, obviously, "but the students don't know that" was the response I got. Yeah, and they are dumber than a box of hair and won't figure it out?

UGH. I spent my first year with kids who didn't do any work. I tried the point system that was worth nothing (thank you school) and it got me...nothing. Keeping the kids into their break time has been the best method of participation I have ever had.

I really hate my coworkers right now.

Thoughts? Any of you had a really effective classroom control method, a student led one no less, that your co workers said wasn't "fair," and had to be replaced with trash? How did you deal with it?

[ThingsComeAround]

Do what you gotta do.

Your co-workers will block you because you are doing something different. Once they see your system works, they will support it (maybe even copy and claim it for their own).

Don't fold man. Keep trying!

[crisdean]

I find the whole punishing the entire class for things great motivation. My only question, aside from the class not having to stay after the bell, is there any other incentive for individuals to volunteer? Are they getting some kind of bonus points? (real or imaginary)

I teach at a middle school and at the end of term I have to give them a writing test which I grade and is worth 10 percent of their final grade, so when I give worksheets or call for volunteers I give points toward bonus marks on the writing test for those who actively participate and/or put effort into trying to do the work I give them, it's really improved the atmosphere for some of my classes, particularly my mid level grade 9 classes.

[Fishead soup]

Personally I never ask for volunteers. You will just struggle getting students to do anything it will waste a lot of time. Your Korean co-workers will ultimatly use the shyness cop out and claim you don't understand Korean culture.

Next time just randomly ask students to perform the conversation.Kneel down close to them so you don't intimidate them to much. Be firm but friendly let them know you won't walk away until they do the conversation.
If they still can't do it call the K teacher over to help. Be aware that if your classes aren't streamlined you might have classes with students who have almost zero English alongside students who are quite good.

Some of your students might be playing Possom. They might know much more then you think, Try to find out who those students are . Lots of Possom students try to bring their English grammar homework into your classroom.

Using pairwork cuts down on your need to use volunteers. It also gets more students involved. In order to do this you need a supportive co-teacher.

[jonpurdy]

Stick with it. It sounds like a good system.

Perhaps write the names of students who volunteered down on the board and let them leave at the bell.

[NYC_Gal]

I do the same thing if they waste my time during class. Every minute I have to stop and wait is a minute taken from their break. Stick to it. As long as they're not held from their next class, it's a fair punishment. Break time is a privilege.

[nathanrutledge]

I just tried their idea, and guess what?!? ZERO SPEAKERS! I explained the new plan, 3 minus points gets a demerit card (which the teachers say they are terrified of) and speaking, participating gets a plus point. 1/4 of the class lost at least 1 point, and on one volunteered.

NYC Gal, thats what I do too. I explained "Nathan Time" and Haksaeng time at the beginning. I think I can still do that, they didn't seem to have a problem with that aspect of it.

Fishhead, I used to pick people but it always became a big fight, they were always too shy and the co teacher would get in the way and stop it then.

Peer pressure is the best. Koreans are big on uri nala, oneness with the group, and the kids are no exception. Punish the whole for the sins of one and they will make sure that the one doesnt screw up again.

One of my girls just used her phone in class so i took it. Well, apparently she skips school a lot so the father calls to check up on her, so my coteacher made me give her the phone back. What a load of ... If this wasn't Dave's, my language would be peeling the paint from the walls I am so pissed about that.

[ThingsComeAround]

Seems like the problem isn't your class but your co-teacher.

[Fox]

[Fishead soup]

How much say do you have in changing the materials you are using. It sounds like they are bored. The Korean Government materials are just dreadful. Can you sometimes use fun materials as a reward for good behavour rather than always punishing them. Try Youtube or EFL Classroom Ning and burn the textbook.

[n�fara]

Sometimes it helps to add a bit of student choice to the "volunteering" system. Say, the first person to speak gets to chose the next person, and so on. This way takes the onus off you to get volunteers, and makes it a bit fun for the students to chose the next victim - er, i mean, volunteer

Or, when asking for volunteers and no one steps up, chose the student that is yawning or scratching their head. Demonstrate their action and be really excited that they raised their hand to volunteer. Be oblivious to their protests that they were just yawning/throwing an eraser/etc.
That honestly works sometimes.

If they have to read a dialogue, when you chose a person and their friend laughs at them for being chosen, make that person their partner, so the first volunteer gets the last laugh.

It sucks that the other teachers are not supporting you in the classroom, but if you can get the students involved more in the way the class is run, it might improve the class atmosphere and participation. Or at least make it easier than pulling teeth.

[liveinkorea316]

I find that getting students to stand up and speak in front of the class is not always the best thing to do too much of.

I try to find situations where they can discuss things with a partner or in groups and I move around and monitor them. You could try giving them sentences and phrases that they can use with eachother and you can walk amongst them and monitor.

Other times when I do ask them to speak to the class it is never alone. I always design the task in groups so that they can help eachother and not feel like everyone is looking at them/ judging them.

Finally, I might suggest that you can change the time of the speaking activity to the beginning of the class. If they do it well you can give them some kind of rewards like candy, games at the next lesson or some fun interesting lessons like learning a song or watching a short movie.

I think also that if you get off-side with too many staff members it is not a good idea. You do want to get another job or be re-hired right? Students might also have a hand in evaluating you so you gotta get on the right side of them too.

So you could find some other way to punish or reward them such as by making them write lines in class "I will obey the teacher. I will obey the teacher. I will obey the teacher."

Just some ideas.

People are self-conscious at any age.

[nathanrutledge]

My problem is not getting people to speak. Volunteering works IF they see a benefit. In my case, the benefit is they get to leave on time. I've used this system before and yes, the first week is painful, they usually waste half or 3/4 of their break time, but the next week, they KNOW that they MUST speak and they can speak before class or after class.

I use my own material. Today's lesson was about going to the movies, pretty basic stuff. We have some vocabulary words which they know most of already, just to reactivate what they already know. A few key phrases, two model conversations, then they write their own conversations based on the models. Afterward, we present what we wrote.

The kids who do the work come up with decent exchanges, no problem.

Nifara, I've done that before, my middle school kids loved it. Have to be careful though, often times they pick on the students who don't know anything AND are very quiet and just want to be left alone, just to see them struggle. Also, no one sleeps in my classes because those who do usually end up answering my questions during the class.

No, my biggest problem is that I have a system that works for me. Talk now or we stay late and you talk then. Either way, they talk, they practice, I've done my job. But now the coworkers say we can't stay after the bell.

I just taught my second class using their "point system" and got another whopping zero participants. Ugh. What a waste of time.

[Fishead soup]

Have you tried Peer Dictation. Andrew Finch uses a lot of this in his textbook" Tell Me More". Students compete in groups to copy paragraphs that are pasted at the front of the classroom. Usually these competative group activities work well.

Just do a yahoo search of Andrew Finch. His stuff is awesome.

[n�fara]

Hmm. I think my knee-jerk reaction to what your co-workers suggested would be to: try their idea, note how it's a complete failure, report back that their idea sucked, and then go back to what worked.

But that might not win many friends in the workplace.

Maybe the teachers feel they shouldn't push the students since they ended up in a "lower level school" and are not optimistic about their future prospects. Maybe you could say you think they have untapped potential and you would really like to encourage them to do their best. You've already gotten results with what you've done before, and perhaps your co-workers are unaware of that.

I agree at the plus points and minus points are useless unless some worth is attached to them. Is it possible to keep track of them and have the different classes compete against each other, to end up winning... something? at the the end of the semester? (just trying to see if there's a way to make their idea work)