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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:43 am Post subject: |
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http://kclibrary.lonestar.edu/decade20.html
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# FACTS about this decade. 106,521,537 people in the United States
# 2,132,000 unemployed, Unemployment 5.2%
# Life expectancy: Male 53.6, Female 54.6
# 343.000 in military (down from 1,172,601 in 1919)
# Average annual earnings $1236; Teacher's salary $970
# Dow Jones High 100 Low 67
# Illiteracy rate reached a new low of 6% of the population.
# Gangland crime included murder, swindles, racketeering
# It took 13 days to reach California from New York There were 387,000 miles of paved road. |
Assuming 40hr/week that's $23 a week. Basically a week's worth of work would buy you a nice suit or a 1 oz gold coin.
whoa.... Back in the 1920's the average person is making our equivalent to 68000 USD per year.
In 2008, the average household income was 50000 USD/year
It seems like we are being paid less and have less purchasing power than the people in the 1920's. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
http://kclibrary.lonestar.edu/decade20.html
| Quote: |
# FACTS about this decade. 106,521,537 people in the United States
# 2,132,000 unemployed, Unemployment 5.2%
# Life expectancy: Male 53.6, Female 54.6
# 343.000 in military (down from 1,172,601 in 1919)
# Average annual earnings $1236; Teacher's salary $970
# Dow Jones High 100 Low 67
# Illiteracy rate reached a new low of 6% of the population.
# Gangland crime included murder, swindles, racketeering
# It took 13 days to reach California from New York There were 387,000 miles of paved road. |
Assuming 40hr/week that's $23 a week. Basically a week's worth of work would buy you a nice suit or a 1 oz gold coin. |
The 40 hr week really didn't come about until the Fair Labor Standards Act was passed in 1938. Anyway, assuming 10 hr/ week or 100hr/week also results in $23/week.
| recessiontime wrote: |
| whoa.... Back in the 1920's the average person is making our equivalent to 68000 USD per year. |
What is your source for that estimate? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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So, work a week in 1920, afford a suit. work a week now and.... Afford a suit. I'm sure there's a difference, but it's looking pretty close to me.
If people want to invest savings in gold, so be it. But as a currency, it's not looking all that different. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
http://kclibrary.lonestar.edu/decade20.html
| Quote: |
# FACTS about this decade. 106,521,537 people in the United States
# 2,132,000 unemployed, Unemployment 5.2%
# Life expectancy: Male 53.6, Female 54.6
# 343.000 in military (down from 1,172,601 in 1919)
# Average annual earnings $1236; Teacher's salary $970
# Dow Jones High 100 Low 67
# Illiteracy rate reached a new low of 6% of the population.
# Gangland crime included murder, swindles, racketeering
# It took 13 days to reach California from New York There were 387,000 miles of paved road. |
Assuming 40hr/week that's $23 a week. Basically a week's worth of work would buy you a nice suit or a 1 oz gold coin. |
The 40 hr week really didn't come about until the Fair Labor Standards Act was passed in 1938. Anyway, assuming 10 hr/ week or 100hr/week also results in $23/week.
| recessiontime wrote: |
| whoa.... Back in the 1920's the average person is making our equivalent to 68000 USD per year. |
What is your source for that estimate? |
it`s simple math.
Couldn`t you figure out that with $1236 in 1920 you could buy close to 62 ounces of gold bullion. 62 ounces of gold bullion is around 68000 today. There you go. |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Ugh, more gold loonery. Civilisation is not about to collapse, merely stagnate for a prolonged period. People have way too much at stake to just let the whole thing unravel and fulfill survivalist post-apocalyptic wet-dreams. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
http://kclibrary.lonestar.edu/decade20.html
| Quote: |
# FACTS about this decade. 106,521,537 people in the United States
# 2,132,000 unemployed, Unemployment 5.2%
# Life expectancy: Male 53.6, Female 54.6
# 343.000 in military (down from 1,172,601 in 1919)
# Average annual earnings $1236; Teacher's salary $970
# Dow Jones High 100 Low 67
# Illiteracy rate reached a new low of 6% of the population.
# Gangland crime included murder, swindles, racketeering
# It took 13 days to reach California from New York There were 387,000 miles of paved road. |
Assuming 40hr/week that's $23 a week. Basically a week's worth of work would buy you a nice suit or a 1 oz gold coin. |
The 40 hr week really didn't come about until the Fair Labor Standards Act was passed in 1938. Anyway, assuming 10 hr/ week or 100hr/week also results in $23/week.
| recessiontime wrote: |
| whoa.... Back in the 1920's the average person is making our equivalent to 68000 USD per year. |
What is your source for that estimate? |
it`s simple math.
Couldn`t you figure out that with $1236 in 1920 you could buy close to 62 ounces of gold bullion. 62 ounces of gold bullion is around 68000 today. There you go. |
If you happened to buy it the day you were born in 1920, you might possibly be able to use it to buy adult diapers.
WTF does the possibility of buying gold in the 1920s have any real world application to? Name one person posting on this thread that could have done it. Think of how many investments you could have made in the past 100 years that may have netted you even more money.
I've never been pro or anti-gold, but some people just seem to be off their rocker in throwing out numbers.
Can you eat gold?
Can you live under it?
Can it drive you around?
Nope, but you can use it to buy those things. And to me, it's only worth is in its ability to do so. Your examples of 68k are pretty much useless. What would be more useful is what could someone buy in 1920 earning $1200 per year vs what people can buy today on those posted incomes. What necessities did they have or go without? What luxuries could they buy? How much free time did they have? What type of social mobility was possible?
To me, any time people start pulling out financial number from 100 years ago, you have to be sure to contextualize it all. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| chellovek wrote: |
| Ugh, more gold loonery. Civilisation is not about to collapse, merely stagnate for a prolonged period. People have way too much at stake to just let the whole thing unravel and fulfill survivalist post-apocalyptic wet-dreams. |
The acquisition of gold is not unreasonable. It was the best performing asset of the past 12 years. Double digit returns y/o/y. Buying it preserves your purchasing power at a time of uncertainty and diminished returns in equity and fixed income markets. The central banks of our states (Uk, US etc) all have a deliberate policy of weakening the currency. I say we take them at their word.
Individuals who see a total collapse of society like gold. That does not diminish the value of gold as a store of value.
Additionally, it is likely that we are going to return to some form of gold backed currency. Central banks won't want this but the situation is such that the first country to do so will reap serious benefits. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
If you happened to buy it the day you were born in 1920, you might possibly be able to use it to buy adult diapers.
WTF does the possibility of buying gold in the 1920s have any real world application to? Name one person posting on this thread that could have done it. Think of how many investments you could have made in the past 100 years that may have netted you even more money.
I've never been pro or anti-gold, but some people just seem to be off their rocker in throwing out numbers.
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Just as anyone can see, you clearly misunderstood my point. I never said you anything along the lines of `if only I`d invested in gold in the 1920`s`.
I compared the salaries to make the point that we now have to work harder just to stay in the same place. In the 1920`s the average individual could work and make enough to support his family, in 2008 the entire household has to work just to keep up with rent and paying for food.
My point is that gold protects you against inflation. Another point I made is that your purchasing power has diminished. Your money buys less gold (and everything else) today than the 1920`s.
The only thing that`s probably keeping all of us afloat is the advent of new technologies that have enriched our lives. That`s probably the only thing distracting most of us from the fact that our purchasing power has gone down so significantly.
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Can you eat gold?
Can you live under it?
Can it drive you around?
Nope, but you can use it to buy those things. And to me, it's only worth is in its ability to do so. |
I don`t think you have comprehended the fact that gold is money and is just as liquid. It does have the ability to be exchanged for goods and services, it always has. The Europeans in the past simply used paper money which were essentially receipts for the gold being held at the blacksmiths or banks.
You also fail to grasp the implications of what I`ve just told you - that your paper money you love so much represents the federal reserves complete control over your purchasing power. They control the money supply, so they can make your paper money worthless by just printing more. They could not do this if we use precious metals which are finite on this planet.
Don`t worry, I`m not surprised that you are unabashedly ignorant about these matters, but the next time the topic is about something you clearly know nothing about try not to pretend like you know anything about it. |
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Cici88
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Like I said, the majority of people here have absolutely no clue what they're talking about....ha ha makes me laugh. If you only truly understood that the US is bankrupt and that we are on the edge of a global depression.....YOU CAN'T PRINT MONEY OUT OF THIN AIR WITH NOTHING BACKING IT.
Oh yeah, gold just $1334 an ounce. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Can you eat gold?
Can you live under it?
Can it drive you around? |
Please don't dumb the thread down any further. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
http://kclibrary.lonestar.edu/decade20.html
| Quote: |
# FACTS about this decade. 106,521,537 people in the United States
# 2,132,000 unemployed, Unemployment 5.2%
# Life expectancy: Male 53.6, Female 54.6
# 343.000 in military (down from 1,172,601 in 1919)
# Average annual earnings $1236; Teacher's salary $970
# Dow Jones High 100 Low 67
# Illiteracy rate reached a new low of 6% of the population.
# Gangland crime included murder, swindles, racketeering
# It took 13 days to reach California from New York There were 387,000 miles of paved road. |
Assuming 40hr/week that's $23 a week. Basically a week's worth of work would buy you a nice suit or a 1 oz gold coin. |
The 40 hr week really didn't come about until the Fair Labor Standards Act was passed in 1938. Anyway, assuming 10 hr/ week or 100hr/week also results in $23/week.
| recessiontime wrote: |
| whoa.... Back in the 1920's the average person is making our equivalent to 68000 USD per year. |
What is your source for that estimate? |
it`s simple math.
Couldn`t you figure out that with $1236 in 1920 you could buy close to 62 ounces of gold bullion. 62 ounces of gold bullion is around 68000 today. There you go. |
Yes, that is very simple. So in 1970 when the average salary was $7564, that would buy about 216 ounces of gold, so the average person was making our equivalent of about $280,000. In 1980 however, the average income of $15,757 would buy about 19 oz. of gold for our equivalent of about $25,600. In 1990, the median income of $29943 would equal our $97,314 and in 2000, the $47,998 median would equal our $198,498. Does that sound about right to you? |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| chellovek wrote: |
| Ugh, more gold loonery. Civilisation is not about to collapse, merely stagnate for a prolonged period. People have way too much at stake to just let the whole thing unravel and fulfill survivalist post-apocalyptic wet-dreams. |
The acquisition of gold is not unreasonable. It was the best performing asset of the past 12 years. Double digit returns y/o/y. Buying it preserves your purchasing power at a time of uncertainty and diminished returns in equity and fixed income markets. The central banks of our states (Uk, US etc) all have a deliberate policy of weakening the currency. I say we take them at their word.
Individuals who see a total collapse of society like gold. That does not diminish the value of gold as a store of value.
Additionally, it is likely that we are going to return to some form of gold backed currency. Central banks won't want this but the situation is such that the first country to do so will reap serious benefits. |
Gold was also probably the best performing asset in the 1970-1980 period and the worst performing in the 1980-2000 period. If, as some people have suggested, gold protects you from inflation, how can it lag so far behind inflation for a 20 year period and then spurt so far ahead for a 10 year period? The relation of the price of gold to inflation seems rather suspect to me. I suppose over very long periods it might hold true, but of course in the long run we're all dead. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| chellovek wrote: |
| Ugh, more gold loonery. Civilisation is not about to collapse, merely stagnate for a prolonged period. People have way too much at stake to just let the whole thing unravel and fulfill survivalist post-apocalyptic wet-dreams. |
The acquisition of gold is not unreasonable. It was the best performing asset of the past 12 years. Double digit returns y/o/y. Buying it preserves your purchasing power at a time of uncertainty and diminished returns in equity and fixed income markets. The central banks of our states (Uk, US etc) all have a deliberate policy of weakening the currency. I say we take them at their word.
Individuals who see a total collapse of society like gold. That does not diminish the value of gold as a store of value.
Additionally, it is likely that we are going to return to some form of gold backed currency. Central banks won't want this but the situation is such that the first country to do so will reap serious benefits. |
Gold was also probably the best performing asset in the 1970-1980 period and the worst performing in the 1980-2000 period. If, as some people have suggested, gold protects you from inflation, how can it lag so far behind inflation for a 20 year period and then spurt so far ahead for a 10 year period? The relation of the price of gold to inflation seems rather suspect to me. I suppose over very long periods it might hold true, but of course in the long run we're all dead. |
The answer is interest rates. If the federal reserve raises interest rates like they did in the 1980s that contracts the money supply, therefore deflation occurs and you see the price of gold going down after 1980.
However this time around with a prospect of a double dipping recession Im not too sure Bernanke will raise interest rates. Not to mention, the national debt of the US is 14x GDP of what it was in the 1980s. |
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Cici88
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| chellovek wrote: |
| Ugh, more gold loonery. Civilisation is not about to collapse, merely stagnate for a prolonged period. People have way too much at stake to just let the whole thing unravel and fulfill survivalist post-apocalyptic wet-dreams. |
The acquisition of gold is not unreasonable. It was the best performing asset of the past 12 years. Double digit returns y/o/y. Buying it preserves your purchasing power at a time of uncertainty and diminished returns in equity and fixed income markets. The central banks of our states (Uk, US etc) all have a deliberate policy of weakening the currency. I say we take them at their word.
Individuals who see a total collapse of society like gold. That does not diminish the value of gold as a store of value.
Additionally, it is likely that we are going to return to some form of gold backed currency. Central banks won't want this but the situation is such that the first country to do so will reap serious benefits. |
Gold was also probably the best performing asset in the 1970-1980 period and the worst performing in the 1980-2000 period. If, as some people have suggested, gold protects you from inflation, how can it lag so far behind inflation for a 20 year period and then spurt so far ahead for a 10 year period? The relation of the price of gold to inflation seems rather suspect to me. I suppose over very long periods it might hold true, but of course in the long run we're all dead. |
The answer is interest rates. If the federal reserve raises interest rates like they did in the 1980s that contracts the money supply, therefore deflation occurs and you see the price of gold going down after 1980.
However this time around with a prospect of a double dipping recession Im not too sure Bernanke will raise interest rates. Not to mention, the national debt of the US is 14x GDP of what it was in the 1980s. |
Yes, and not only that, gold and silver have been artificially depressed and manipulated by the Fed, and other central banks, and large commercial shorts. They call it the biggest scam and ponzi scheme in history and now it's been exposed. This gold cartel is starting lose their grip on the gold market and the commercial shorts are getting slaughtered.
Oh yeah, gold just hit $1340 and ounce....Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!
PS: I find it very very very unlikely that the Fed will raise interest rates. Even if they do, it will be in small increments. For the price of gold to go down due to rising interest rates, rates will have to go up drastically and will have to be above the real rate of inflation. Not happening anytime soon.
Gold will go over $1600 an ounce by February. You heard it hear first. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
The answer is interest rates. If the federal reserve raises interest rates like they did in the 1980s that contracts the money supply, therefore deflation occurs and you see the price of gold going down after 1980.
However this time around with a prospect of a double dipping recession Im not too sure Bernanke will raise interest rates. Not to mention, the national debt of the US is 14x GDP of what it was in the 1980s. |
Why was it that only gold deflated while pretty much everything else continued to inflate albeit at a lower rate? And why did gold continue to go down even after interest rates went down? And why don't you respond to this:
| Quote: |
| Yes, that is very simple. So in 1970 when the average salary was $7564, that would buy about 216 ounces of gold, so the average person was making our equivalent of about $280,000. In 1980 however, the average income of $15,757 would buy about 19 oz. of gold for our equivalent of about $25,600. In 1990, the median income of $29943 would equal our $97,314 and in 2000, the $47,998 median would equal our $198,498. Does that sound about right to you? |
Of course you'd look pretty silly trying to defend your nonsensical formula, so I can understand why you'd rather ignore that post and change the subject. |
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