Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Hindsight]

chellovek wrote:

[tiger fancini]

[chellovek]

[Steelrails]

[chellovek]

[Hindsight]

First, there is no American public school system, just local school districts run primarily by local school boards, with varying state oversight. Some schools are excellent, some not.

Second, I am an American. And I think America is doomed, in part because of the ignorance and poor judgment of all too many of its voters. But this has nothing to do with IQ. The whole point of IQ tests is that they are supposed to measure pure intelligence, independent of any skills, knowledge, or academic achievement. This, of course, is impossible. There is no one quality that can be defined as "intelligence." And there is no scientific reason to believe intelligence differs by country or race, apart from the influences of prenatal diet, socioeconomic status, education, etc. But more about that.

Third, we are talking about Korean attitudes toward English speaking foreigners, and particularly foreign English teachers, not just Americans. It is hard for children to become motivated to learn English if they are taught negative attitude towards foreigners who speak English. I had one co-teacher who kept playing this song every day for weeks that was essentially about how lazy foreigners are. It was cute for the first week, after that the message turned sour.

tiger fancini had some reasonable questions. I guess he missed the news article about the Korean professor of psychology who did a study of IQ test results around the world and concluded Koreans were the second smartest, behind only Hong Kong. I suspect your students have heard about it. Ask them.

Say to your class: Is anyone here a genius? I have had kids announce in the middle of class, for no apparent reason, their IQ score, or that they are a "genius." Hands! If the professor is right, they should all raise their hands. Korea, where all the children belong to Mensa.

I had a student tell me that "everyone knows Koreans have higher IQs than Americans." Now that's an intelligent remark, if I've ever heard one. Especially given that he was in middle school, attending hagwon to study English, I was giving him extra, free tutoring, and he still could not read English at the first grade level. Classic Korean manners. (I wonder how many foreign teachers left before their contract was up for punching kids in the nose?)

How many posters here know their IQ scores? How many of you recall ever taking an IQ test in school? Not achievement test, IQ. Were you told your IQ?

I never saw a school wide IQ test, never heard of one, was never told my IQ. Lots of achievement tests, no IQ tests. In America, IQ tests are viewed as a waste of money and not particularly meaningful, with a caveat. They are used to track mentally disabled children, as in Down Syndrome, etc. So if that Korean professor used IQ test results of Americans, he might not have gotten a representative sample, to say the least; but that might have been what he wanted.

Obviously, IQ tests are more common in Korea. I suspect that historically they may have had more common problems with mental disability from things like lead poisoning, mercury poisoning, carbon monoxide poisoning. neurotoxin pesticides, fetal alcohol syndrome, etc. So that may have been the original reason for widespread IQ tests.

However, I do not know if the are still necessary, as I assume the Korean government, which cares so deeply about the welfare of all Koreans, has widespread information programs to inform its citizens about the dangers of lead paint and gasoline, the dangers of eating too many fish contaminated with mercury, the dangers of brain damage from carbon monoxide produced by kerosene heaters and air duct ondol heating, the proper handling of domestic, agricultural and municipal pesticides, and of course, they would never,ever allow women to drink soju during pregnancy, would they?

tiger fancini wrote:

[Captain Corea]

I was given a couple of IQ tests in school growing up in Canada. I don't recall them every telling me the scores, but they told my mom (she had to make a decision regarding my placement at one time).

In regards to your line reasoning that Koreans look down on English speakers, I'd have to say that that runs counter to my experiences here. IQ hullabaloo aside, in my nearly 10 years of being here, it's been a rare occasion where I've run across a condescending student.

[bucheon bum]

[mises]

[tiger fancini]

[misher]

[The Happy Warrior]

[Hindsight]

I heard about Koreans' belief in their intellectual superiority long before I came to Korea. A woman who owned a Korean restaurant told me that Koreans have superior IQs because they use chopstick. I never guessed at the time that she was actually serious, and that this is a common belief in Korea -- among adults.

Have you ever looked for a fork in a small grocery store in Korea? Probably all you will find is a small fork for a little child decorated with stuffed animals, etc. The message to older children seems to be: Grow up and use chopsticks, because only little babies use forks.

As to the study, by Professor Hwang, you could always try using google to look it up. Here's a start:

[Wishmaster]

Yeah, they are so smart that they were living in the dirt in the early '50's. They are so smart that they have been colonized numerous times. Oh, and I wouldn't much faith in an IQ survey that was taken in South Korea, where white envelopes and an inferiority complex, ahem, adjust those IQ scores. If their IQ scores are so high, how can they be so illogical on so many fronts? If they are so smart, why can't most of them speak even one proper English sentence after studying for years and taking thousands of classes? High IQ? Nah, more like High Deceit.

[Hindsight]

Why you don't see IQ tests used routinely in U.S. schools: