|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:50 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| But there are good students out there, about 10 percent of a class, on average. Frankly, I feel a little sorry for the other 90 percent. I had the feeling the classes were just making them miserable. |
You do realize that that is about the norm for foreign language instruction right?
Think back home. Were our schools churning out tons of fluent Spanish speakers?
No matter where you go kids are going to be exposed to nationalism and xenophobia. Some buy it, many don't. Kids back home watch FoxNews or kids in France hear how America sucks, but that doesn't stop them from learning.
I think you put way to much stock into what some teacher is saying.
| Quote: |
| Yeah, they are so smart that they were living in the dirt in the early '50's. |
You really don't know history do you. Do you really believe that?
| Quote: |
| They are so smart that they have been colonized numerous times. |
Are you suggesting that colonizers are geniuses then?
I find nothing intelligent about invading other people and subjugating them.
| Quote: |
| how can they be so illogical on so many fronts? |
I don't think any group of humans operates with logic. Do you really believe that you yourself are a pillar of logic?
There is nothing logical in your post. There is a lot of anger and resentment.
Vulcan we are not.
| Quote: |
| If they are so smart, why can't most of them speak even one proper English sentence after studying for years and taking thousands of classes? |
The same reason most suburban Americans can't hold a tune to save their life despite listening and singing along to music for all their lives- It just is that way.
You are forgetting that for many of them English is a third language with Chinese as well.
But I suppose your intelligence is something special? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Hotwire
Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Location: Multiverse
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry Steelrails but your last para is nonsense.
I got a grade D in my French GCSE after 3 years of once or twice weekly 50 minute French classes. A mediocre result at best and I was a very passive learner in those classes, not that interested.
I could still go to France tommorow and order food, set up a hotel, get directions, have a basic conversation about my hobbies and family and this is 18 years later and never once having had used it since.
Had I been having French lessons since the age of 6 through to 19 I'd be fluent, it would literally be almost impossible not to be.
Last edited by Hotwire on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wishmaster
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I took French in high school. After only a few lessons, I could speak two sentences without error. Koreans have been studying English for YEARS and the best they can do is..."I'm fine. And you?" Are you always satisfied with mediocrity? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wishmaster
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Koreans lack logic. I think many on this board will agree. And if Koreans were so smart then they would have built a really big ditch to stop any invasions from outside forces. Or possibly a super groovy hi-tech "boat" that would shoot laser beams. I mean, after all, they have their self-proclaimed high IQs. But, hey, that is Korean logic, isn't it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hotwire wrote: |
Sorry Steelrails but your last para is nonsense.
I got a grade D in my French GCSE after 3 years of once or twice weekly 50 minute French classes. A mediocre result at best and I was a very passive learner in those classes, not that interested.
I could still go to France tommorow and order food, set up a hotel, get directions, have a basic conversation about my hobbies and family and this is 18 years later and never once having had used it since.
Had I been having French lessons since the age of 6 through to 19 I'd be fluent, it would literally be almost impossible not to be. |
You maybe, but your classmates?
And just like there was plenty of dead weight in Spanish class back home, same here. And same as back home there are some students that are pretty good at English as well.
Besides it doesn't mean they don't understand or could write in English, it might have to do with shyness. Shyness is not related to intelligence.
Not that Koreans are any smarter than anyone else, but they aren't dumb either.
| Quote: |
| Koreans lack logic. I think many on this board will agree. And if Koreans were so smart then they would have built a really big ditch to stop any invasions from outside forces. |
You write that and claim that you have logic?
| Quote: |
| Or possibly a super groovy hi-tech "boat" that would shoot laser beams. |
I hope this is a tongue in cheek reference to the Turtle Ship.
| Quote: |
| Koreans have been studying English for YEARS and the best they can do is..."I'm fine. And you?" |
And there are plenty of Koreans who can speak more than that.
I mean it seems Koreans have English down pretty well since whenever they say something offensive that makes its way onto Dave's and detailed conversations are given.
| Quote: |
| I mean, after all, they have their self-proclaimed high IQs. But, hey, that is Korean logic, isn't it? |
Uh no, that is your 'logic' and snarkiness.
But right I guess smart people go around and boot natives off their land and sell 'fine black bucks'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hotwire wrote: |
Sorry Steelrails but your last para is nonsense.
I got a grade D in my French GCSE after 3 years of once or twice weekly 50 minute French classes. A mediocre result at best and I was a very passive learner in those classes, not that interested.
I could still go to France tommorow and order food, set up a hotel, get directions, have a basic conversation about my hobbies and family and this is 18 years later and never once having had used it since.
Had I been having French lessons since the age of 6 through to 19 I'd be fluent, it would literally be almost impossible not to be. |
By contrast, I took German for two years in high school and for two semesters in college, and today I can barely remember basic vocabulary. My interest was literally zero; I was doing it because it was an academic requirement, so I did it well enough to pass whatever tests were put before me, then forgot it. I learned German like many Koreans learn English, and I forgot German like many Koreans forget English, because our purpose was exactly the same: just passing a test, and then never using it again.
By contrast, after two years of studying Korean on my own with no instructor, I can have conversations, despite Korean being a much more difficult language for an English speaker to acquire.
I'm impressed if you really retained as much French as you described despite having no interest, but I don't think it's at all common. People tend to forget things they both don't use, and don't care about. That goes double for a language with completely alien grammar and no cognates to lean on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not to mention how are Korean kids supposed to get language practice outside of school?
It seems many NETs cringe and having to talk to Korean children unless money is involved.
Combine that with the fact that many NETs won't talk to adult Koreans unless they have to or unless they're trying to hook up and I don't feel comfortable holding their feet to the fire for their English skill, especially considering that their English seems quite fine all things considered and that many of them can also read Chinese. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fox wrote: |
| Hotwire wrote: |
Sorry Steelrails but your last para is nonsense.
I got a grade D in my French GCSE after 3 years of once or twice weekly 50 minute French classes. A mediocre result at best and I was a very passive learner in those classes, not that interested.
I could still go to France tommorow and order food, set up a hotel, get directions, have a basic conversation about my hobbies and family and this is 18 years later and never once having had used it since.
Had I been having French lessons since the age of 6 through to 19 I'd be fluent, it would literally be almost impossible not to be. |
By contrast, I took German for two years in high school and for two semesters in college, and today I can barely remember basic vocabulary. My interest was literally zero; I was doing it because it was an academic requirement, so I did it well enough to pass whatever tests were put before me, then forgot it. I learned German like many Koreans learn English, and I forgot German like many Koreans forget English, because our purpose was exactly the same: just passing a test, and then never using it again.
By contrast, after two years of studying Korean on my own with no instructor, I can have conversations, despite Korean being a much more difficult language for an English speaker to acquire.
I'm impressed if you really retained as much French as you described despite having no interest, but I don't think it's at all common. People tend to forget things they both don't use, and don't care about. That goes double for a language with completely alien grammar and no cognates to lean on. |
God I hated French. Was forced to take it for 9 years and glad I don't remember a thing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| Koreans have been studying English for YEARS and the best they can do is..."I'm fine. And you?" Are you always satisfied with mediocrity? |
And yet, to echo a point made by Steelrails, they manage to communicate (presumably in English if speaking to a foreigner) just how much better Korea is than the USA at everything. Funny that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
Not to mention how are Korean kids supposed to get language practice outside of school?
It seems many NETs cringe and having to talk to Korean children unless money is involved. |
This is also a good point, though I don't think it's entirely fair to place the blame so heavily on NETs; I'm comfortable with allowing children who approach me a chance to practice their English, but after, "What's your name?" and "Where are you from," it often trails off into nervous laughter. I'm sure they can generally say more than that, but the inherent awkwardness of the situation makes it difficult.
Children need a comfortable situation to seriously practice their conversation, and approaching a stranger on the street isn't going to provide such a situation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| I took French in high school. After only a few lessons, I could speak two sentences without error. Koreans have been studying English for YEARS and the best they can do is..."I'm fine. And you?" Are you always satisfied with mediocrity? |
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| Koreans lack logic. I think many on this board will agree. And if Koreans were so smart then they would have built a really big ditch to stop any invasions from outside forces. Or possibly a super groovy hi-tech "boat" that would shoot laser beams. I mean, after all, they have their self-proclaimed high IQs. But, hey, that is Korean logic, isn't it? |
You can't be serious |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hotwire
Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Location: Multiverse
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Hotwire wrote: |
Sorry Steelrails but your last para is nonsense.
I got a grade D in my French GCSE after 3 years of once or twice weekly 50 minute French classes. A mediocre result at best and I was a very passive learner in those classes, not that interested.
I could still go to France tommorow and order food, set up a hotel, get directions, have a basic conversation about my hobbies and family and this is 18 years later and never once having had used it since.
Had I been having French lessons since the age of 6 through to 19 I'd be fluent, it would literally be almost impossible not to be. |
By contrast, I took German for two years in high school and for two semesters in college, and today I can barely remember basic vocabulary. My interest was literally zero; I was doing it because it was an academic requirement, so I did it well enough to pass whatever tests were put before me, then forgot it. I learned German like many Koreans learn English, and I forgot German like many Koreans forget English, because our purpose was exactly the same: just passing a test, and then never using it again.
By contrast, after two years of studying Korean on my own with no instructor, I can have conversations, despite Korean being a much more difficult language for an English speaker to acquire.
I'm impressed if you really retained as much French as you described despite having no interest, but I don't think it's at all common. People tend to forget things they both don't use, and don't care about. That goes double for a language with completely alien grammar and no cognates to lean on. |
God I hated French. Was forced to take it for 9 years and glad I don't remember a thing. |
It would seem thatI am sonewhat a genious!
Je m'appelle Howire, Jais voudrais un sexy hour sil vous plais! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wishmaster
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm just saying...instead of being invaded and conquered over and over and over again, you would think that they would have dug a big ditch. A huge ditch. Perhaps putting some kimchi into the ditch to help deter the invaders. Or maybe they could have just made a "Great Wall of Kimchi." I don't know. And I stand on my point. If you are going to brag about how high your IQ is, then you'd better be able to back it up and if you can't learn to speak one sentence after thousands of lessons, well, I question how smart you truly are. Some of you guys say that you don't remember the French or Spanish or whatever you took. One of the reasons is that you don't have those classes every single day. Koreans take English classes(multiple times per day, no less) EVERY SINGLE DAY and still can't speak properly. It is absurd. But hey, keep wasting that money... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
You do realize that the Great Wall failed to keep invaders out of China right? Perhaps Koreans saw the futility of such a costly, ineffective expenditure and decided to use their resources in better ways.
Saying Koreans lack logic? What a self-centered, ignorant thing to say. If you're going to be a bigot, at least be original and/or entertaining instead of a complete bore. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| I'm just saying...instead of being invaded and conquered over and over and over again, you would think that they would have dug a big ditch. A huge ditch. Perhaps putting some kimchi into the ditch to help deter the invaders. Or maybe they could have just made a "Great Wall of Kimchi." I don't know. And I stand on my point. If you are going to brag about how high your IQ is, then you'd better be able to back it up and if you can't learn to speak one sentence after thousands of lessons, well, I question how smart you truly are. Some of you guys say that you don't remember the French or Spanish or whatever you took. One of the reasons is that you don't have those classes every single day. Koreans take English classes(multiple times per day, no less) EVERY SINGLE DAY and still can't speak properly. It is absurd. But hey, keep wasting that money... |
I think the westerners here seem to brag a fair bit about their brains as well and many of them are utterly inept at their foreign language from back home or dare I say, the language of the country they are living in.
Braggarts are annoying. But saying all Korean people brag and all can't speak more than two sentences is just ridiculous.
I will say if you take the foreign population of Korea and compare its Korean level vs. the language level of Koreans in other countries I think Koreans would do quite fine in such a comparison likewise if you compared their foreign language skill to other homogeneous country's foreign language skill. World class? Hardly. Dumb as rocks? Certainly not.
Also remember to include Chinese writing and Mandarin as well as Japanese in this discussion of foreign language capability.
Are you seriously suggesting that the solution to foreign invasion is to build a massive ditch? Is that your brilliant solution?
Being xenophobic and isolationist is not a great way to go about things, but its a heck of a lot better than conquest, colonization and exploitation of other people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
