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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Well, I'm glad we all find each other so amazing.
Perhaps that's why we keep coming back for more. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
j
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Diver, your point is clear... but you seem to be skipping over the posted areas regarding foreigners in Korea. You assume because the (English translation) of the consitution says 'citizens', that non-citizens are exluded. And while I understand that train of thought, it's very possibly wrong. |
You are correct. I have even qualified my argument by saying that it is based on the English version of the Constitution.
That being said, TUM has not proven me wrong yet, has he? MY source is the Korean constitution, HIS is some guy with an F5.
Remember, I never said that foreigners don't enjoy the specific rights I cited, I said that they don't appear to be guaranteed to us. If someone can provide a source that says those rights ARE guaranteed to foreigners I would be happy to change my view. I make my opinions, and change them, based on the info at hand and not whether or not I "like" the person providing the info.
Cheers |
Yeah, as far it it stands, neither have really proven much. That being said, on an F5 I'd feel confident if ever confronted by the police and such as to my (assumed) rights. |
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Hotwire
Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Location: Multiverse
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Well, I'm glad we all find each other so amazing.
Perhaps that's why we keep coming back for more. |
Nah. I think it's either boredom, social isolation or having pathologicaly not having completed the anal stage of childhood.
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Steelrails,
For whatever it is worth, I think Korean authortarianism and the power the Korean constitution puts into the President go much farther back than the Korean (Civil) War.
All you have to do is look at Korea's long standing love affair with Confucianism and its history of kingdoms and kings to see that it goes much farther back. I might even say it is deeply rooted in their culture.
One of the things that I do find impressive about many Koreans I meet is their desire for democracy and their desire to have more freedom and more civil liberties. I really hope someday they get them. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
Steelrails,
For whatever it is worth, I think Korean authortarianism and the power the Korean constitution puts into the President go much farther back than the Korean (Civil) War.
All you have to do is look at Korea's long standing love affair with Confucianism and its history of kingdoms and kings to see that it goes much farther back. I might even say it is deeply rooted in their culture.
One of the things that I do find impressive about many Koreans I meet is their desire for democracy and their desire to have more freedom and more civil liberties. I really hope someday they get them. |
Oh no doubt, just saying that the Korean War and such adds to that and is one reason why they may have chosen not to go with a Parliamentary system ala Japan. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| redaxe wrote: |
| I think it's pretty much become a rule of Dave's that any thread over ten pages is going to be dominated by TUM, Captain, and Steelrails. Do you guys do anything else at work all day? |
It seems to have also become a rule of Dave's that any such thread will have your good self sniping at one or more of the above posters and not contributing anything worthwhile to the discussion at hand. |
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Wai Mian
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Location: WE DIDNT
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| redaxe wrote: |
| I think it's pretty much become a rule of Dave's that any thread over ten pages is going to be dominated by TUM, Captain, and Steelrails. Do you guys do anything else at work all day? |
It seems to have also become a rule of Dave's that any such thread will have your good self sniping at one or more of the above posters and not contributing anything worthwhile to the discussion at hand. |
au contraire. sniping at you and Steelrails is one of the more worthwhile endeavors on dave's. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Wai Mian wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| redaxe wrote: |
| I think it's pretty much become a rule of Dave's that any thread over ten pages is going to be dominated by TUM, Captain, and Steelrails. Do you guys do anything else at work all day? |
It seems to have also become a rule of Dave's that any such thread will have your good self sniping at one or more of the above posters and not contributing anything worthwhile to the discussion at hand. |
au contraire. sniping at you and Steelrails is one of the more worthwhile endeavors on dave's. |
I'm glad I contribute meaning to your life then. |
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take a rest
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Location: self-banned
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Well, I'm glad we all find each other so amazing.
Perhaps that's why we keep coming back for more. |
I know I'm new here and all, but if you ask me, this deserves further discussion a lot more than whatever annoying/racism-based/which is the superior culture issues.
I mean, chances are that no one is actually going to do anything about the other stuff, or at least no one is really going to make a difference, so maybe instead of everyone beating our heads repeatedly against the same old brick walls, we could take this opportunity to all discuss our childhoods and explore our deep inner feelings and stuff, and take turns listening to each other without judgment. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Wai Mian wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| redaxe wrote: |
| I think it's pretty much become a rule of Dave's that any thread over ten pages is going to be dominated by TUM, Captain, and Steelrails. Do you guys do anything else at work all day? |
It seems to have also become a rule of Dave's that any such thread will have your good self sniping at one or more of the above posters and not contributing anything worthwhile to the discussion at hand. |
au contraire. sniping at you and Steelrails is one of the more worthwhile endeavors on dave's. |
It does makes one's day. The Gilster I presume?
Really, once the lines are crossed and then everyone calms down and riles up again, Dave's is like a family. We all kind know each other and know what buttons to push.
And then we all come together when some truly crazy stuff like Towel Snapper or First Date Bites comes along.
Like the Bundys. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Getting back on topic.
As regards torture the Korean Constitution (specifically Article 12(7) states that no confession obtained by torture of a "defendant" can be used as evidence.
Key word here is "defendant"...not "citizen"
Article 12(1) " No person shall be arrested, detained. secured, seized, or interrogated except as provided by law."
Again the key words here are "no person" not "citizen".
In fact there are plenty of such references through the Korean Constitution. Not to mention the fact that Korea is a signatory to several U.N/international/bilateral treaties which discuss foreign workers among other issues.
http://www.gonzagajil.org/content/view/200/26/
Is that enough of a "guarantee" for you Mr. Diver? |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Getting back on topic.
As regards torture the Korean Constitution (specifically Article 12(7) states that no confession obtained by torture of a "defendant" can be used as evidence.
Key word here is "defendant"...not "citizen"
Article 12(1) " No person shall be arrested, detained. secured, seized, or interrogated except as provided by law."
Again the key words here are "no person" not "citizen".
In fact there are plenty of such references through the Korean Constitution. Not to mention the fact that Korea is a signatory to several U.N/international/bilateral treaties which discuss foreign workers among other issues.
http://www.gonzagajil.org/content/view/200/26/
Is that enough of a "guarantee" for you Mr. Diver? |
Great link.
Off the top of my head, I liked this part:
Specifically, Article 12(2) expressly forbids the torture of its citizens in criminal cases.
Thanks for pointing that out.
BTW, would you mind highlighting the section that says:
F5 visa holders have all the same rights as a Korean citizen except the right to vote in national elections. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Not to mention the fact that Korea is a signatory to several U.N/international/bilateral treaties which discuss foreign workers among other issues.
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However, it's still not a signatory of the most important treaty that is related to us as migrant workers. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
F5 visa holders have all the same rights as a Korean citizen except the right to vote in national elections. |
The truth is, the F5 visa, in its current form, is kind of new. Very few websites have updated their records on it, and even certain government officers have difficulty with it.
What rights do you think that they don't have?
| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| However, it's still not a signatory of the most important treaty that is related to us as migrant workers. |
Not everyone on this forum is a migrant worker (note the conversation about F5s). |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| However, it's still not a signatory of the most important treaty that is related to us as migrant workers. |
Not everyone on this forum is a migrant worker (note the conversation about F5s). |
Regardless, I'd wager that the vast majority of people on here are on E2s, and are thus migrant workers. This still doesn't detract from the fact that Korea is not a signatory to an important treaty that specifically protects migrant workers rights. |
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