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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| So we should only be talking about the majority on this forum? Do they make up the majority of foreigners in korea? |
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Wai Mian
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Location: WE DIDNT
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| No but unless you are conversant in Mandarin or Yanbian/North Korean dialect, English speaking foreigners in Korea will have to suffice with Dave's. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm fairly certain that the courts here in Korea consider the constitutional rights, including that of protection from torture, to apply to foreigners also. Perhaps the Cap'n can find a good link supporting that. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Wai Mian wrote: |
| No but unless you are conversant in Mandarin or Yanbian/North Korean dialect, English speaking foreigners in Korea will have to suffice with Dave's. |
Sorry, but my concept of 'foreigners' does not revolve around Dave's. I know that there is far more going on in Korea than just a few thousand E2s. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| So we should only be talking about the majority on this forum? Do they make up the majority of foreigners in korea? |
No, even so, the majority of foreigners in Korea are migrant workers or have been at some point regardless of visa status. Come on, Captain, you're dealing in petty semantics now. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Not to mention the fact that Korea is a signatory to several U.N/international/bilateral treaties which discuss foreign workers among other issues.
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However, it's still not a signatory of the most important treaty that is related to us as migrant workers. |
But F5's are not migrant workers and that was what the discussion between myself and Mr. Diver was about. Not E-2's or F-2's |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| So we should only be talking about the majority on this forum? Do they make up the majority of foreigners in korea? |
No, even so, the majority of foreigners in Korea are migrant workers or have been at some point regardless of visa status. Come on, Captain, you're dealing in petty semantics now. |
The majority of foreigners are foreign spouses/family.
Goggle "List of South Korean visas."
Visas issued for industrial trainees in 2006 were 48,203
General trainees stood at 16,496 the same year
E-7 (designated activities) 14,927
E9 (non-professional employment (38,713)
E-2 at around 15000 or so
F-1's stood at 120,190 (visiting or joining family)
F-2's stood at 93,959 ( resident)
F-3's at 21.243 (accompanying spouse)
F-5's at 11, 239 (permanent resident) (2005)
In fact the F-series visa (family or resident) outnumber any of the other visa-series given. While some of the F-5 and F-2's may have been migrant workers in the past the F-1 has more members than either of them. And many if not most F-2's are foreign spouses from a non English speaking nation married to a Korean national.
Granted these are from 2006 but I doubt the figures have greatly changed in less than 4 years. |
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Wai Mian
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Location: WE DIDNT
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Wai Mian wrote: |
| No but unless you are conversant in Mandarin or Yanbian/North Korean dialect, English speaking foreigners in Korea will have to suffice with Dave's. |
Sorry, but my concept of 'foreigners' does not revolve around Dave's. I know that there is far more going on in Korea than just a few thousand E2s. |
Nor does mine, but when it comes to discussing sh!te on the internet, in English, Dave's is the go to. And the vast majority of English speaking foreigners are e-2. Ergo, the rights of migrant workers or lack thereof are of no small concern to the majority of the people using this site. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
What rights do you think that they don't have? |
Well, I have given a couple of examples from the constitution to show which rights it doesn't look like are guaranteed to foreigners.
Remember, I never said we don't enjoy those rights, I might even concede that we "have" those rights - I am trying to show that they may not be guaranteed.
A couple of points come to mind:
a) Perhaps "every person" got changed to "citizen" in the translation by accident
b) perhaps the document is poorly written and they used the terms interchangeably without giving much thought
c) perhaps they WANTED to make a distinction between "person" and "citizen" (they do use both int heir constitution - as an example, so does the Canadian Constitution where they want to make a clear distinction between what citizens in Canada can do, and what everybody in Canada can do)
Steelrails did bring up a good point - how is the Constitution viewed in Korea?
In Canada or the US, it is THE WORD. All laws flow from the constitution. A law is constitutional or not. That is, the Constitution governs all other laws, not vice-versa. Is this not the case in Korea? Maybe one of the lawyers out there could explain.
Anyway, despite international treaties, the English language version of the Korean constitution appears to limit some basics rights and freedoms to Korea citizens only.
For those of you out there saying, "Of course you have rights, Korea is a signatory to several international...." - What does it say about Korea that foreigners here have to depend on international treaties for their protection? Other countries enshrine those rights in their own constitutions. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| So we should only be talking about the majority on this forum? Do they make up the majority of foreigners in korea? |
No, even so, the majority of foreigners in Korea are migrant workers or have been at some point regardless of visa status. Come on, Captain, you're dealing in petty semantics now. |
The majority of foreigners are foreign spouses/family.
Goggle "List of South Korean visas."
Visas issued for industrial trainees in 2006 were 48,203
General trainees stood at 16,496 the same year
E-7 (designated activities) 14,927
E9 (non-professional employment (38,713)
E-2 at around 15000 or so
F-1's stood at 120,190 (visiting or joining family)
F-2's stood at 93,959 ( resident)
F-3's at 21.243 (accompanying spouse)
F-5's at 11, 239 (permanent resident) (2005)
In fact the F-series visa (family or resident) outnumber any of the other visa-series given. While some of the F-5 and F-2's may have been migrant workers in the past the F-1 has more members than either of them. And many if not most F-2's are foreign spouses from a non English speaking nation married to a Korean national.
Granted these are from 2006 but I doubt the figures have greatly changed in less than 4 years. |
According to this Amnesty document (http://www.amnesty.org/en/appeals-for-action/protect-migrant-workers-south-korea), as of last December, there are somewhere in the region of 500,000 low-skilled migrant workers in Korea. This report (http://saladtv.kr/?document_srl=102046) by a migrant workers group in Korea suggests vaguely similar figures. I've been helping out in a government run migrant workers center. I'll have a look on Sunday at their literature to see how many the government thinks there is. How many of those 500,000 are legal is, of course, open to debate without solid facts from immigrant/ministry of labor. How many F4s are there, out of interest? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| So we should only be talking about the majority on this forum? Do they make up the majority of foreigners in korea? |
No, even so, the majority of foreigners in Korea are migrant workers or have been at some point regardless of visa status. Come on, Captain, you're dealing in petty semantics now. |
The majority of foreigners are foreign spouses/family.
Goggle "List of South Korean visas."
Visas issued for industrial trainees in 2006 were 48,203
General trainees stood at 16,496 the same year
E-7 (designated activities) 14,927
E9 (non-professional employment (38,713)
E-2 at around 15000 or so
F-1's stood at 120,190 (visiting or joining family)
F-2's stood at 93,959 ( resident)
F-3's at 21.243 (accompanying spouse)
F-5's at 11, 239 (permanent resident) (2005)
In fact the F-series visa (family or resident) outnumber any of the other visa-series given. While some of the F-5 and F-2's may have been migrant workers in the past the F-1 has more members than either of them. And many if not most F-2's are foreign spouses from a non English speaking nation married to a Korean national.
Granted these are from 2006 but I doubt the figures have greatly changed in less than 4 years. |
According to this Amnesty document (http://www.amnesty.org/en/appeals-for-action/protect-migrant-workers-south-korea), as of last December, there are somewhere in the region of 500,000 low-skilled migrant workers in Korea. This report (http://saladtv.kr/?document_srl=102046) by a migrant workers group in Korea suggests vaguely similar figures. I've been helping out in a government run migrant workers center. I'll have a look on Sunday at their literature to see how many the government thinks there is. How many of those 500,000 are legal is, of course, open to debate without solid facts from immigrant/ministry of labor. How many F4s are there, out of interest? |
The field for the number of F4s was left blank both for 2005 and 2006. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
The field for the number of F4s was left blank both for 2005 and 2006. |
Have you got a link for all of those figures above? I wouldn't mind having a look. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we should just be greatful for what we have. Decent paying jobs in a troubling job market. Count your blessings and be happy with what you have. |
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redaxe
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| redaxe wrote: |
| I think it's pretty much become a rule of Dave's that any thread over ten pages is going to be dominated by TUM, Captain, and Steelrails. Do you guys do anything else at work all day? |
It seems to have also become a rule of Dave's that any such thread will have your good self sniping at one or more of the above posters and not contributing anything worthwhile to the discussion at hand. |
Yep. Redaxe is my name, and sniping you guys is my game.  |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Wai Mian wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Wai Mian wrote: |
| No but unless you are conversant in Mandarin or Yanbian/North Korean dialect, English speaking foreigners in Korea will have to suffice with Dave's. |
Sorry, but my concept of 'foreigners' does not revolve around Dave's. I know that there is far more going on in Korea than just a few thousand E2s. |
Nor does mine, but when it comes to discussing sh!te on the internet, in English, Dave's is the go to. And the vast majority of English speaking foreigners are e-2. Ergo, the rights of migrant workers or lack thereof are of no small concern to the majority of the people using this site. |
yet the topic at hand is how Koreans treat foreigners... NOT how they treat teachers on E2s. I don't see any reason why we need to narrow the discussion to ONLY that visa class. |
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