Korean Job Discussion Forums

[guava]

How's that Iraqi National Army we trained to take our place in Iraq doing?
Well, recently 300 Iraqi soldiers backed by US fire and air support, took on 4 insurgents-and got their asses kicked...

Battle Raises Questions On Iraq Security Readiness
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130323848

Iraqi soldiers were sent into the grove, in single file, each headed by an officer, Molinari says. The insurgent snipers would simply take aim at the officer who was leading each column.

"It was a matter of, as soon as the officers went down, the [Iraqi soldiers] went to ground. They didn't know what to do next," Molinari says.

The Iraqi soldiers fled from the palm grove and requested American firepower, Molinari says. So the Americans employed bombs, mortars, grenades and special forces. But the enemy only hid in drainage ditches, waited, then came out again, shooting.

In all, five Iraqis were killed and 13 were wounded. Two Americans were wounded as well. By the second night of battle, the Iraqis had ordered a full retreat from the palm grove.

Back at the base, Molinari says he simply wasn't going to put his men on the front lines.

"It took a lot to hold them back," he says, "because my NCOs and my scout platoon leaders were saying, 'We can do this. We can eliminate this threat right now. I just need to go out on a flank and make this happen.' I basically had to take an appetite suppressant and I had to say, 'No. If I send you out there, you will probably eliminate the threat. But that's not the mission. The mission is to get them to do it.' "

In the end, it turns out that only four or five insurgents were fighting in the Battle of the Palm Grove.

And despite the efforts of hundreds of Iraqi soldiers, about 50 American soldiers, and massive firepower, the insurgents eventually managed to escape from the palm grove.

Listen to the story
http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=130323848&m=130332168

[ThingsComeAround]

America was never meant to 'win' in Iraq.
Had we left them alone, the would have a despot for a leader, but they would also keep Iran at bay and be out of our hair.

I believe that the invasion was to build the merc for hire 'industry' (Blackwater) in addition to stealing oil, and being the bully/hall monitor on the planet.

What's more- how do we know there were only four? Could've been 5 or 2

[rollo]

You want to join the Iraqi army? Or why would anyone care about this

[guava]

What makes you think anyone needs to justify being interested in this topic, or any topic?

[bucheon bum]

[mises]

I remember something about an offer being made to the Americans from the Iraqi military to depose of SH to prevent the war. I don't know how viable that offer war.

I opposed the war from the start. However, I didn't believe America would turn Iraq into Puerto Rico in the desert. I figured it would be over quite quickly. I assumed they'd remove SH and appoint a manageable General to run the place. The lesson from Japan, which was the point of reference given to us as justification, was that the head of the state would be removed while the military remained to keep the peace. Bremer's move to dissolve the Iraqi military was, aside from the invasion, the most serious mistake. Like many of the fools running around the Bush admin, Bremer had fully zero relevant work experience (was a managing director at Kissenger and Associates) yet was given an immensely important task. An American General should have been given that job (head of the CPA).

Now America has to rebuild the country and the army. It hasn't gone so well. It would have been much easier had the army not be dissolved. The best outcome from the American perspective would be a Mubarak in Iraq (which is what they want for Iran).

[bucheon bum]

They did appoint a (former) general initially- Jay Garner. Then, for reasons that still are not clear, he was fired and good ol' Bremer came in and screwed things up even more. His other genius move was firing everyone tied to the Baath Party. Also, when he disbanded the army he gave the soldiers severance pay. Yes, fire the dudes with weapons but give them some money so they can buy more shit to take their anger out on you. Brilliant.

[rollo]

You pay Iraqi taxes? I hadnt realized that. Mises gave a nice sumation but left out the fact that Donald Rumsfeld decided to run the war. The man is a failure , a loudmouthed egotist. He ignored the reccomendations of experienced generals lectured the press constantly promoted himself as a genius in charge. George Bush Sr. had warned junior about Rumsfeld when he appointed him. Mises is again correct that it was the Bremer appointment that led to fiasco.
My congressman a Republican opposed the war. He felt that it was wrong to put young Americans in jeapordy over a theory, the theory being that Iraqi could become a terrorist haven.
I opposed the war because I felt there were better ways to fight Al Queda. I also didnt think it would drag on the way it did . Disbanding the Iraqi army was the mistake that started it all. But we should not be surprised that there are problems rebuilding the army, there has also been problems in rebuilding schools and infrastructure. Just a huge failure. Billions poured down the drain a lot of people dead for little reason. I think if the U.S. does not rebuild Iraq that there will be a terrible price to pay in the future. WE walked away from Afghanistan after the Soviets left and look how that turned out.

[caniff]

[bucheon bum]

[mc_jc]

L. Paul Bremmer was an idiot and still is.
He screwed things up when he fired the entire Iraqi military and civil service. Had he kept them on, the situation would have been different.

Many of the insurgents were former military soldiers who were out of work and paid by AQ to attack coalition troops.

The sad thing is that US training entails the same manual of arms that was developed during the War of 1812. With the exception of specialized units, AFI soldiers are ill-trained to take on guerilla operations.

I am sorry to say that it will be like when the North Vietnamese invaded the south once the US withdrew its forces.
However, because of the Kurds in the north, islamic insurgents will only be in control of Arab regions of the country, forcing it to split. This in itself will invite intervention from both Turkey and Iran to prevent a separate Kurdish state from being formed.

No matter how you look at it, it's FUBAR'ed