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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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 Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
What the US should think about is to increase tariffs on foreign goods (like Korea does) and to give US companies less competition. |
Maximum tariffs are strictly regulated by GATT-WTO. I don't think this is the answer. US companies need to learn to export. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| I would really be curious how an undocumented worker can pay taxes and social security! |
Here.
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Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.
Paycheck withholding collects much of the federal tax from illegal workers, just as it does for legal workers.
The Internal Revenue Service doesn't track a worker's immigration status, yet many illegal immigrants fearful of deportation won't risk the government attention that will come from filing a return even if they might qualify for a refund.
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But some illegal immigrants choose to file taxes and write a check come April 15, using an alternative to the Social Security number offered by the IRS so it can collect income tax from foreign workers.
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Pantoja said she has helped a number of construction workers who, because they are classified as independent contractors by their employers and have no taxes withheld, owe big tax bills come April. Beyond income tax, they have to pay the full Social Security and Medicare taxes due.
The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare.
The agency estimates that for 2005, the last year for which figures are available, about $9 billion in taxes was paid on about $75 billion in wages from people who filed W2 forms with incorrect or mismatched data, which would include illegal immigrants who drew paychecks under fake names and Social Security numbers.
Spokesman Mark Hinkle says Social Security does not know how much of the $9 billion can be attributed to illegal immigrants. The number is certainly not 100%, but a significant portion probably comes from taxes paid by illegal immigrants.
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He said the tax contributions from illegal immigrants, including sales taxes, property taxes and excise taxes (such as the gas tax), are significant.
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Many illegal immigrants pay income tax, and actually pay more net tax due to not filing for returns where a citizen would. Many pay into Social Security, but won't ever collect it. All of them pay sales tax every time they buy anything. If they ever purchase a home, they pay property tax, and if they rent, part of their rent ends up going to the payment of property tax.
Many illegal immigrants are an asset with regards to tax revenue. If one is looking to make a hard line case against illegal immigration, tax issues are not the best approach. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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"Can't we just taze them as they make their run for the border?"
-Wayne in Little Rock |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I had to ask???? I just cant believe that an illegal would file taxes as an independent contractor but I guess it happens. Since most of the illegal workers I have met , seen worked with get cash , I dont know. Just defies logic. Companies do the withholding generally and why would they pay the extra for illegals instead of keeping it themselves and would illegals go to the trouble of filing taxes and go to the trouble to find out what it takes to be an independent contractor. Of course companies like Walmart which employ lots of illegals probably do things differently maybe that is where this comes from. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| mc_jc wrote: |
What the US should think about is to increase tariffs on foreign goods (like Korea does) and to give US companies less competition. |
Maximum tariffs are strictly regulated by GATT-WTO. I don't think this is the answer. US companies need to learn to export. |
Uh oh. Someone's sounding like Obama. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Korea uses non-tariff barriers to trade to protect domestic markets. Singapore is very inventive with this. The major retailers are owned by a private equity fund owned by the state and managed by LKY's kin. They will allow any good in, but the retailers and middle men might not buy it. Ok, that won't work for an economy as large as the US but inventive protectionism is where the US should be looking.
That said, I support tariffs. Wages are only one part of the problem. In the US there is heavy environmental regulation that increases the total costs of producers. Those producers can move to China or Indonesia and avoid these regulations in sum. The US would benefit from assigning a tariff equal to the spread between the costs of these regulations. With rising energy prices, much of the wage issue will be undermined by transportation costs (though not all). The US (and Canada) don't need to fully compensate for the total difference.
The US also needs to lower the corporate tax rate. I know that there are many loopholes and the big firms don't pay any tax usually but firms that are not politically connected or can't afford 100k in tax consulting from KPMG get hit hard.
In Quebec there is a big storm right now because the Montreal metro is buying 50 subway cars from a Quebec firm. Spain says it will sue because the bid was not competitive. Let them sue. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| mc_jc wrote: |
What the US should think about is to increase tariffs on foreign goods (like Korea does) and to give US companies less competition. |
Maximum tariffs are strictly regulated by GATT-WTO. I don't think this is the answer. US companies need to learn to export. |
Uh oh. Someone's sounding like Obama. |
Not sure what to make of this comment. The US should play the game, but to play the game, you can't violate the rules. I'm sorry, tariffs don't seem politically feasible. I like mises' idea to be inventive.
Meanwhile, US companies need to learn to export. I guess I sound like Obama. I'm not going to run from him like a scared Democrat incumbent, at least when he's right about something. I was more thinking I was sounding like the Germans. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| mc_jc wrote: |
What the US should think about is to increase tariffs on foreign goods (like Korea does) and to give US companies less competition. |
Maximum tariffs are strictly regulated by GATT-WTO. I don't think this is the answer. US companies need to learn to export. |
Uh oh. Someone's sounding like Obama. |
Not sure what to make of this comment. The US should play the game, but to play the game, you can't violate the rules. I'm sorry, tariffs don't seem politically feasible. I like mises' idea to be inventive.
Meanwhile, US companies need to learn to export. I guess I sound like Obama. I'm not going to run from him like a scared Democrat incumbent, at least when he's right about something. I was more thinking I was sounding like the Germans. |
I was just kidding with the uh oh. I agree with you (and Obama) in regards to exports and think mises' suggestion is good as well. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:17 am Post subject: |
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I take back my comment on corporate taxes. Any decrease will be spat out to executives/owners.
Instead, maybe tax breaks per employee employed above a given wage. If you employ 100 people @10$/hr you don't get the breaks. If you employ 100 people @ 25$/hr you do. But this runs against our implicit low wage policy. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Good ideas by Mise. I believe that the U.S. corporate tax rate is higher than France's and Germany's. But as he pointed out probably not a good idea to lower it. Tariffs mean a trade war and that is better than a shooting war. Some protectionism is good. AS an idiot once said "BRing it on". It's coming anyway. FRee trade made American corporations rich on the backs of cheap Chinese labor, and devastated the American working class. There basically is no such thing a working class in America.
Back on topic. The infrastructure is still pretty sound. Mass transit is taking hold in most cities. Rail system is improving would improve more if manufacturing picked up. The key to rebuilding the transportaion system is to rebuild it in smart ways. Probably the biggest problem the U.S. faces now is rebuilding the electric grid. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Probably the biggest problem the U.S. faces now is rebuilding the electric grid. |
Hrmmm. I would have said restoring the sewage systems. |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| And fun fact of the day: many undocumented workers pay income tax and social security |
Undocumented workers pay no tax as they work almost exclusively under the table (not on the books). This way the employer doesn't have any overhead such as FICA or Medicare payments to match what their employees would have to deduct if they were working legitimately. Not to mention the union dues for workers or for an employer having to deal with a union in the first place...basically, everyone keeps the money they make, both employer and employee.
However, the lack of a large-scale taxable workforce compels the tax burden to fall on those who are paying taxes.
As the American workforce gets older and there are fewer people paying into the system, Social Security dries up and health expenses go through the roof.
However, many major companies and farmers who profit from the undocumented workforce lobby, successfully, congress to keep the status quo, with states that have large scale enterprises backing those efforts.
What do we have? A nation whose infrastructure is stuck in the 20th Century that is unable and unwilling to deal with the infrastructural problems faced in the 21st Century.
Similar to the problems Czarist Russia witnessed before the rise of the Bolsheviks. |
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Wai Mian
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Location: WE DIDNT
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Germany's policy of paying companies to scale back hours instead of laying people off would certainly help.
Going back to 1960 and forcing the Japanese to comply with patent law would be huge as well.
Giving every man woman and child 10 grand would also go a long way, but they didn't earn it!!!!! And what if we get inflation in 2025?!?!? |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:26 am Post subject: |
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One thing that many countries have done is currency revaluation.
Take a "0" out of the equation might help. |
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