Korean Job Discussion Forums

[barbaricyip]

Cards on the table - I'm a newbie hagwon teacher (just over two months into the job) and to no one's surprise, due to naivete and inexperience, I didn't start out on the strong side of classroom management. That said, I don't have significant problems in any of my classes with the single exception of a low-level middle school class which will be the subject of this post. Basically, I don't think I'm completely incompetent, just understandably green and ready to start learning from my mistakes.

The problem class isn't overly large (only 14 kids!), and there are two biggish issues that I totally cop to owning. One, as mentioned, their English level isn't especially high. As such, I'll occasionally go too fast, or take for granted that they'll understand something when they actually won't. This means that backtracking can happen, and I understand where this can be demoralizing for them. I'm getting better at teaching to level, but I'm far from perfect. Two, they're a fairly energetic bunch, and some of them have made pretty good friends with each other, so class can get a little hectic. Luckily, I've finally learned how to channel this energy into a competitive edge (and we've also been moved into a larger classroom!) so this isn't as much of an issue as it used to be.

But there's one girl (let's call her Helen, as in, of Troy) who's a maelstrom of misbehavior. Helen speaks over me and other students, is glued to her cellphone whenever my back is turned, and makes snide comments at every opportunity. Helen also has a friend with whom she talks and play-fights (as in, pushing each other out of their chairs and onto the floor - it's like watching synchronized seizures). Helen's friend becomes totally sullen and non-responsive whenever Helen happens to be absent. I've tried separating Helen and her cohort, but this only results in them shouting at each other across the room, and occasionally throwing things as well. Furthermore, whenever Helen is present, her zealous disrespect bleeds over into the rest of the already energetic class, and the group goes from mostly manageable to what I have come to call my recurring nightmare.

The things I've tried include seating charts, confiscating cell phones, and a point system that culminates in calling their parents. I've never shouted at the class, though the session where I rearranged them began with stern words and a distinct lack of my usual smiles - not that this seemed to have any appreciable effect. I've told their Korean home room teacher (unfortunately even newer than I am) that they're a problem, and she has talked to Helen's mother, only to come back to tell me that Helen doesn't understand what is going on in class. Being told this made me feel pretty bad, because I realized that I still wasn't teaching them at the right level, and so I blamed myself hard for the way the class was going (I still do, which is why I'm here during the process of trying to figure out my options).

But as of the last few hours, I've learned that Helen's not only disrespectful to me, but to other foreign teachers and even to the Korean teachers at our hagwon. Until tonight, I'd always assumed that my problems with the class and her were first and foremost because of my aforementioned inexperience. While yes, this is of course still a factor, it's been a bit of an epiphany to discover that this isn't just my fault. Girl's got attitude.

So what can I do? I intercepted Helen and her friend as they left tonight to inform them that I was going to send them home with a letter to their parents explaining what they'd done wrong (the typical "I have wasted teacher's time and your money" deal), and then I told the homeroom teacher of my intentions. But the homeroom teacher responded with waffling, and telling me that she'd think it over, and I'm not especially hopeful about the outcome of this situation.

Right now, what I want to do is explain to Helen and her friend (mostly Helen) that the next time they misbehave, they're out of my class. That I refuse to teach them if they refuse to listen. It's my plan to ask a gyopo friend to write a letter that I can give to the front desk explaining that this student is misbehaving and can they please make sure she sits down and contemplates her failings until the end of the hour, when there is time to call her parents, or something along those lines.

But what I want to know is, what can I really expect? I know it's different at every school, but what are your opinions, denizens of Dave's? Will a hagwon let me get away with refusing to teach a student on disciplinary issues? Will that even accomplish anything? I mean, there's not a lot I can do as a foreign teacher except take huge whacks at Helen's grade. But how much trouble could I expect? My director is an incredible person, but I've heard some horror stories about the owner of the school - if I really stuck to this in the attempt to show I wasn't a pushover, would it be forgotten in time or would I be in the firing range for, well, being fired?

And does anyone have any advice? I really don't know what to do at this point.

[ThingsComeAround]

'Helen' won't be out of your class for long.

If it is a hagwon like some of us have experienced, she will be marched back into your classroom (probably with candy in her pockets) and you will be torn a new one for letting such a precious child go outside. Blame will fall on you.

Not saying you aren't trying, but you should talk to a vet teacher in your school first. The management at hagwons are rarely going to side with the teacher when it comes to $$.

You mentioned confiscating cell phones. Did you Really confiscate it- as in not give it back at the end of the period? Also, you may want to try this: get 'Helen's' mom's cell number. Then call her when you Really need to. Have the K-teacher explain that Helen cannot come to class w/o mommy present, she is making trouble for other students trying to learn. It is ballsy, and if the mom is tough she may complain to the director, but it is worth a shot. Mom will not allow her shopping/coffee/movie/free time to be interrupted for babysitting her child at a hagwon- that's your job.

A letter home isn't going to do much. The mom is already giving excuses- be sure you call her during your break. Video recording your lessons is a plus.

[Countrygirl]

It sounds like you are a good teacher for being a newbie; you seem to be very aware of your strengths and weaknesses; but I think you might be reacting very strongly for what some might consider normal Korean student behaviour. When teaching in Korea, I would never get the mother involved unless the student was a danger to himself or others. There are just too many variables involved that would not work in the favor of the lone esl teacher.

I don't want to discourage you but in my experience the mothers of such children rarely understand your point of view and won't side with you. To such mothers their children are misunderstood and it's the teacher that is the problem. And even though you've now heard every single complaint about Helen from all the other teachers about Helen it's doubtful that the mother has heard even one complaint (Korean teachers don't like to give complain to Korean mothers for a reason) . You've already gotten the mother involved with a phone call and it only seems to have backfired. You're right that if you refuse to teach this student that the owner will now have to address your ability as a teacher. Remember that the owner and mother can communicate with each other well (in the language of Korean and money).

It seems to me that you are jumping to the final ultimatum (kicking the student out of class) and not working hard enough on the smaller punishments. Tell all the students what is unacceptable behaviour (ie touching, talking, using the cell phone) and a list of consequences (ie. separate the students, take the cell phone, kicking the student out of class for 5 minutes, keeping the student after class for 5 mins, etc) and write it on the board or give a handout.

Write the name of misbehaving students on the board and every time they do something bad, put a mark under their name. Each mark can represent 5 mins that they have to stay or 10 lines they have to write after class. Ask the Korean teachers how they discipline students. Korean parents understand Korean punishments and you can defend yourself by saying you are just disciplining the student the same as other teachers discipline their students at the school.

Group punishments also work well in Korea...if the lesson could not be taught because Helen was disrupting the class then keep the class longer or make all the students put their heads on their desks until Helen and her friend are quiet.

The most important thing is be consistent and persistent in your discipline methods. One mistake that I see new teachers do is they discipline students 2x's and then give up because they think it's not working. You might have to kick Helen out of class 3 times the first day, 2 times the next class and 4 times the next day. It'll get worse until it gets better. Don't forget to discipline all the students the same so that Helen can't tell her mother that you are out to get her. Eventually all of the students will know what to expect if they misbehave.

Remember, you can't win 'em all. Some classes don't go as well as others and some students refuse to learn.

[ThingsComeAround]

[balzor]

[rollo]

Very good advice on this thread. Pay attention to Helen. Make her a focus let her lead some activities. Call on her. Praise her. Channel her energy. Talk to her. You sound like you are a good strong teacher so turn Helen from a liability into an asset. Surely you can outsmart a child.

[Countrygirl]

[ThingsComeAround]

I'm with you on cleaning the room. Staying later to clean after other peers is depressing and the students definitely don't act up in the next class.

I don't like kicking kids out even for short intervals. What will they do? Run in the halls, play in the bathroom, pretty much a free pass to do mischeif. Keep problem children in your sight, and make the punishment unpleasant. Don't relent because they say "sorry". (4 out of 5 times they don't mean it)

[Illysook]

A kid in my class just wrote a nasty note with rude English words on it and gave it to another kid. (like "kick me" only more like bleep my bleep.) So, what I did was tape that note to the kids back and make him stand up facing the wall. That way the other kids could read it and embarrass him. He won't keep acting out in my class! My Korean co-teacher totally supported me, but I work at a public school. I have different challenges and most of my problems with kids acting out has to do with me not totally meeting those challenges.

[Countrygirl]

[barbaricyip]

Hey folks, thank you zounds and zounds for all the good advice in this thread. I'm grateful for the perspective, and the suggestions that don't involve displacing my authority onto K-teachers or the school director. I don't see this class again until next week, so until then I'm going to figure out exactly what my plan of action is.

Physical punishment with standing in a corner, facing the wall, is high on my list. I'm also going to be bringing an embarrassingly pink plastic tub to dump all their cellphones in at the beginning of the lesson. I'm not too confident about whether I could make the class stay late (we meet at 9pm, leave at 10pm), I'll brainstorm to find some other method of group penalty. Also, while writing names on the board is already part of my usual tactic, and it didn't seem to have a real effect, I guess what I've really learned is not to lose hope without repetition. I'm definitely going to start focusing on Helen in a more activity-heavy fashion. I don't know why this hadn't entered my mind, I guess I'm just so exhausted with her - erk, bad teacher.

Though I think that's the crux of the matter - I was pretty tootin' tired of the whole mess. All these suggestions are really refreshing, however, and I'm feeling more confident about getting back on my feet with the class, without having to resort to what I or others would consider drastic measures.

Thanks again for the encouragement and various tactics. Hopefully,z I'll update on the situation when there's news worth updating with.

[tanklor1]

In my experience Mom's rule everything that's at a hagwon. There's another thread on here about a teacher who may get fired because a mom complained that he was too boring.

Keeping the Mom's happy means the school gets money which means everything here.

I wish you best of luck and hope that your hagwon will be more understanding than a couple of mine.

[barbaricyip]

It just occurred to me that it behooves me to note - I'm a woman. This obviously changes the way a student (and, well, anyone) will perceive me. Does anyone's advice change, based on this fact? Do you have additional suggestions or warnings?

[tanklor1]

[ThingsComeAround]

^^ I agree with the above


Hell hath no fury...