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I migrated to Europe with hope. Now I feel nothing but dread
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Hotwire

Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Location: Multiverse

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject:

^^ Of course it is. Even an IDIOT can see how well China is doing with Tibet! For all the gung ho 'US number 1, millitary might etc etc' some Americans sure are a touchy bunch. In a lot of ways they remind me of Koreans.... Certainly a lot of 'Europhobia' amongst some of them.

The Happy Warrior

Joined: 10 Feb 2010

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject:

Hotwire wrote:

^^

Of course it is. Even an IDIOT can see how well China is doing with Tibet!

There are over fifty recognized minorities in China, and you choose the one that is essentially occupied; the Tibetans are a poor example and unrepresentative.

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/12/06/family-portraits-of-all-56-ethnic-groups-in-china/

Quote:

For all the gung ho 'US number 1, millitary might etc etc' some Americans sure are a touchy bunch

I make one comment about China assimilating better than Europe, and you guys go into instant American stereotyping mode. No, I'm not the one being touchy in this thread.

I think in the future I'll direct my inquiries about Europe to Big Bird by PM.

chellovek

Joined: 29 Feb 2008

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject:

Aye because you haven't been making sweeping generalisations about Europe? You still haven't demonstrated how China assimilates better than Europe. Let's leave aside for the moment the fact that one is a unified country whilst the other is a continent of 30 countries...

Wishmaster

Joined: 06 Feb 2003

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject:

Free Tibet!

Sergio Stefanuto

Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:08 am Post subject:

Sergio Stefanuto wrote:

Big Bird wrote:

For example, your African population have not been properly integrated, even centuries on.

Many individual black Americans have found themselves able to achieve senior executive positions, so any blame for blacks, or anyone, not being "properly integrated" must lie with individuals failing to seize the opportunities that are available, which may have something to do with this or perhaps the deplorable standards of state education, which leave many children unable to read and write

32 blacks running for Congress as Republicans

Quote:

...from a largely white swath of beach communities in Florida to the suburbs of Phoenix, where an African-American candidate has raised more money than all but two of his nine (white) Republican competitors in the primary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/05/us/politics/05blacks.html

The US has 41 out of 435 black members of the House of Representatives (9.4%)
http://baic.house.gov/historical-data/representatives-senators-by-congress.html?congress=111

It does mean that blacks are under-represented, as blacks are 12 or 13% of the general population, but, as is so often the case with generalizations about groups of people, the differences within a particular group are just as stark, or even more stark, than the differences between groups.

The same fallacy occurs when people claim that senior executive and political jobs are dominated by men, thus sexism must be the reason. Yes, they are dominated by men, but so are low paid jobs, so are the unemployed, so are prisons and so are mental institutions, thus the differences within the male population are far more stark than the differences between men and women, totally undermining the conclusion that sexism is any kind of significant force in society

Hotwire

Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Location: Multiverse

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:26 am Post subject:

The Happy Warrior wrote:

Hotwire wrote:

^^

Of course it is. Even an IDIOT can see how well China is doing with Tibet!

Quote:

For all the gung ho 'US number 1, millitary might etc etc' some Americans sure are a touchy bunch

Nobody wrote that you in particular was being touchy.

You have through out this thread been grossly inaccurate with almost every post you've made however. Inlcuding the one quoted here....

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:49 am Post subject:

The Happy Warrior wrote:

Hotwire wrote:

^^

Of course it is. Even an IDIOT can see how well China is doing with Tibet!

Quote:

For all the gung ho 'US number 1, millitary might etc etc' some Americans sure are a touchy bunch

Typical second hand Krauts! What are they like??? Razz

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:50 am Post subject:

Hotwire wrote:

You have through out this thread been grossly inaccurate with almost every post you've made however. Inlcuding the one quoted here....

Not entirely fair. He did concede that things were perhaps not as he had first though, after all.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:58 am Post subject:

caniff wrote:

The Happy Warrior wrote:

(The French are doing okay in this respect).

Amongst just the ethnic French or does this include all of the nationalized French as well?

Don't be so cheeky. Twisted Evil

Hotwire

Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Location: Multiverse

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:03 am Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

Hotwire wrote:

You have through out this thread been grossly inaccurate with almost every post you've made however. Inlcuding the one quoted here....

Not entirely fair. He did concede that things were perhaps not as he had first though, after all.

And you honestly believe he wasn't doing it for the wind up? The out of context quoting, or deliberately quoting parts to weakly make a point whilst ignoring parts which would have obviously negated said weak point.

Either you are too kind or I'm too cynical. And I hang out with Cannif so I'm pretty tolerant he he.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:15 am Post subject:

Sergio Stefanuto wrote:

Big Bird wrote:

For example, your African population have not been properly integrated, even centuries on.

It's too simplistic to blame it solely on blacks themselves. Yes, they need to take more responsiblity. But they have a lot more obstacles to overcome than the average yank. Let's not pretend otherwise. But that's an old argument that's been argued here many times.

Quote:

Big Bird wrote:

It seems to me that immigrants quickly become absorbed into the general population in the UK, whereas in the US, they consider themselves ethnically different for generations

Whether they consider themselves ethnically different is beside the point; the real question is, do they consider themselves Americans and are they considered Americans by other Americans? Wiki: thirty-one ancestry groups have more than a million members. Immigrants and their offspring very rapidly assimilate. The prospect of easy assimilation is part of what attracts these diverse millions in the first place, otherwise they'd be less inclined and choose an alternative destination. I can't believe you think your anecdotal evidence about stupid people pretending they are Irish is of any significance. Americans are encouraged to think about their ancestory, particularly nonwhites (see 'Hypenated Americans'), and there's sentimentality for 'Irishness' in England just as much as in America - see the pathetic celebrations of St Patrick's Day. The reason for this is that, for some inexplicable reason, these Guinness-swilling, freckly-faced, superstitious Celts have a flattering reputation the world over

Just another excuse for a piss up in the UK. In America (at least pre-911) it was motivation enough to donate money to republican terrorists. And surprisingly, the loyalists tapped into it and raised money there as well.

Quote:

Big Bird wrote:

We are a mongrel race

That old chestnut eh?

I know it contradicts something I saw you post in another corner of the cyber universe. I nearly took you up on it then, but hadn't the time. The UK population has never been static. Indeed, very few populations are, unless they're tucked away in an inaccessible location.

Quote:

Leading geneticists Bryan Sykes and Stephen Oppenheimer maintain that the British gene pool has remained largely unchanged since the first settlers arrived 12,000 years ago.

Perhaps most important of all, Oppenheimer�s research on specific gene types has found that Anglo Saxon DNA contributed as little as five per cent to male lines, with virtually no evidence of it occurring in female lines. Any similarities between modern-day Britons and Anglo Saxons, he argues, can be attributed to common ancestors way back in the distant past.

http://heritage-key.com/britain/genetic-britain-how-roman-viking-and-anglo-saxon-genes-make-uks-dna

Duh! You don't even understand what you have posted. You're so busy being an internet warrior that you haven't even bothered to read your sources properly. Tut tut. We've been here talking about immigration in the last 2 millenia. What you've posted doesn't contradict it the way you seem to think it does. Look again at your own quote:

"Any similarities between modern-day Britons and Anglo Saxons, he argues, can be attributed to common ancestors way back in the distant past. "

In otherwords, the Anglo-Saxons had similar genetic heritage to the ancient Brits. That doesn't mean they were the same peoples. Their languages and cultures had long ago diverged. Have you never read up on the "out of Africa" theory? There is great genetic diversity within Africa, but the people outside of Africa (Europeans, Asians etc) don't have much genetic diversity. i.e. the genetic difference between someone in Scandanavia and someone in South Korea is much smaller than the genetic difference between someone in Nigeria and someone in Ethiopia.

Remember that 12000 years ago the population of Europe would have been relatively tiny. Is it any surprise then that the Europeans (who share that tiny genepool of ancestory) today haven't as much genetic diversity between them as that of the population Cape Town?

That the Anglo-Saxons weren't so genetically dissimilar from the Celts is hardly to a surprise to anyone who bothers to watch the odd doco from time to time. It doesn't contradict that Angleterre experienced various waves of immigration in the last 2 millenia, including the past 500 years.

Quote:

[T]he English still derive most of their current gene pool from the same early Basque source as the Irish, Welsh and Scots. These figures are at odds with the modern perceptions of Celtic and Anglo-Saxon ethnicity based on more recent invasions. There were many later invasions, as well as less violent immigrations, and each left a genetic signal, but no individual event contributed much more than 5 per cent to our modern genetic mix.

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2006/10/mythsofbritishancestry/

[/quote]

You might find the same conclusion about the US. The initial colonisation by white folk would have impacted hugely on the genepool because there would have been a bigger diversity between the original habitants and the European invaders. After that, the changes in genetic diversity would have been relatively minor from decade to decade. Krauts, poms, paddies, ities, slavs - all much of a muchness (genetically speaking).

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:29 am Post subject:

Hotwire wrote:

Big_Bird wrote:

Hotwire wrote:

You have through out this thread been grossly inaccurate with almost every post you've made however. Inlcuding the one quoted here....

Not entirely fair. He did concede that things were perhaps not as he had first though, after all.

When did I say that I 'honestly don't think HW is taking the piss...' Of course he's trying to wind you up. That's the primary purpose of posting on internet forums.

Sergio Stefanuto

Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:31 am Post subject:

Big Bird wrote:

The UK population has never been static

I realize that, but you've used "population" and "race" interchangeably. Race means the genepool; population means men, women and society.

Race: the last 12 millenia have added next to nothing to the genepool that wasn't already there, so stasis is quite right.

Population: the population has changed dramatically many times through invasion and immigration, so stasis is quite wrong

Big Bird wrote:

We've been here talking about immigration in the last 2 millenia.

Big Bird wrote:

What you've posted doesn't contradict it the way you seem to think it does

Big Bird wrote:

It doesn't contradict that Angleterre experienced various waves of immigration in the last 2 millenia, including the past 500 years

You're being incredibly sloppy. How cheeky claiming I haven't understood something when your own use of very different terms as though they were synonyms is the problem

"immigrant nation" is substantially different from "mongrel race". The latter claim is the one I responded to - not the truism that Britain is an immigrant nation.

Britain is a melting pot of immigration and invasion, but not a mongrel race.

Big Bird wrote:

In America (at least pre-911) it was motivation enough to donate money to republican terrorists.

I still feel you're drawing a very hasty conclusion about Americans based on sentimentality that some Americans have about their Irishness

Big Bird wrote:

changes in genetic diversity would have been relatively minor from decade to decade. Krauts, poms, paddies, ities, slavs - all much of a muchness (genetically speaking).

But the great thing about America, especially the major cities, is that American children have, for example, a Korean mum and a Mexican dad. Whether there are any dramatic differences, genetically, between Mexicans and Koreans isn't important; what matters is that racial mixing is inherently good. Far too much is made about racism in America - it is an outrage. It's the least racist society that's ever existed!

Hotwire

Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Location: Multiverse

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:07 am Post subject:

Why all da ghettos be black yo? And why yo granpappeh make mah granpappeh pick thayt dayam cotahn?

The Happy Warrior

Joined: 10 Feb 2010

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject:

Sergio Stefanuto wrote:

Far too much is made about racism in America - it is an outrage. It's the least racist society that's ever existed!

Well, there's America and there's the South. I find that when Canadians, Commonwealthers, etc, talk about America being a racist nation, they mean Jim Crow in the South was a racist nation.

But as Hotwire explains, in his own special way, although Jim Crow no longer exists, its ramifications continue to today.

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