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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Big Bird wrote: |
| The UK population has never been static |
I realize that, but you've used "population" and "race" interchangeably. Race means the genepool; population means men, women and society.
Race: the last 12 millenia have added next to nothing to the genepool that wasn't already there, so stasis is quite right. |
Whoa whoa! Before I go have my breakfast let me just get one thing straight.
I used the term 'mongrel race' ironically. There is no such thing as race. I thought any educated chap was aware that 'race' is just a social construct - not a biological definition. Biologists regularly point out there is no such thing as race, from a biological pov. And surely being English, you would have taken in that I was using a term like 'mongrel race' with tongue-in-cheek humour.
I shall read the rest of you post later so as not to be tempted to reply to any of it now. Got to force some sort of 'healthy' breakfast down the throats of my two small mongrels, and then drag them kicking and screaming into the city for their French class. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| It doesn't contradict that Angleterre experienced various waves of immigration in the last 2 millenia, including the past 500 years. |
But since the end of the 2nd World War, the UK has experienced a wave of immigration that in its nature, scale and continuous nature has been unprecendented. For example, the Huguenot migration to the UK numbered 50,000 over the course a few decades. That's roughly a third of net immigration per year at the present time.
The idea that the UK is an 'immigrant nation' or that it has 'always been multicultural' are total fallacies used to defend present day immigration policy, which is indefensible in terms of both social or economic national interest. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| I used the term 'mongrel race' ironically. |
I had a feeling I might have taken you too literally. My error. But whether race exists or not, it's still quite proper to use it in ordinary language |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| I think we are all on the same page but in the U.S Immigration and assimilation is The narrative. It is what the country is about simple as that. I dont think it is that way in Europe or the U.K. Different places different history. |
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cert43
Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Far too much is made about racism in America - it is an outrage. It's the least racist society that's ever existed! |
Well, there's America and there's the South. I find that when Canadians, Commonwealthers, etc, talk about America being a racist nation, they mean Jim Crow in the South was a racist nation.
wHAT?
But as Hotwire explains, in his own special way, although Jim Crow no longer exists, its ramifications continue to today. |
Bullshit.
You yanks are just as, if not more raciest |
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cert43
Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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@OP
You in Germany, aren't you?  |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:11 am Post subject: Re: I migrated to Europe with hope. Now I feel nothing but d |
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Integration takes centuries, not decades. That is what history shows us at least. Perhaps we're being a little impatient.
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Friday evening in Rotterdam saw large groups of immigrant children in the streets, estranged from their roots, trying to find solace in consumerism and urban culture, but also feeling alienated from Dutch society. |
I saw this, unfortunately when i lived in Holland. Moroccan youths making a nuisance of themselves on the streets, flashing knives in noightclubs, or selling drugs.
It was a similar story in the south of France but with Algerians.
Mostly a reaction to feeling rejected by Dutch/ French society I suppose.
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In Germany, questions were being raised about Turkish immigrants adhering to a fundamentalist Islam. |
They appear to be the main source of the drug trade as well as other petty crime...thats hardly following any strict code of ethics.
If anything I would say clinging to Islam is the main factor slowing their integration. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:01 am Post subject: |
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http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20101014-30483.html
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CSU hardens stance against immigration
The general secretary of the Christian Social Union has declared that �Germany is not an immigration country,� signalling that the Bavarian conservatives were defiantly standing their ground over recent attacks on immigrants. |
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/germany-turning-against-muslims/story-e6frg6so-1225936757751
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A recent poll showed that 55 per cent of Germans consider Muslim immigrants a burden who "have cost much more socially and financially than they have contributed economically".
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"Mr President, why are you sucking up to Islam?" screamed Bild, the largest-circulation tabloid, which published a poll showing that 66 per cent of the public believe Islam does not belong in Germany.
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Another feature of the debate is a book called Germany Does Away With Itself by Thilo Sarrazin, a Social Democratic party politician and former director of the Bundesbank. His provocative thesis is that fast-breeding Muslim immigrants are "dumbing down" Germany and will eventually take over. It has sold 600,000 copies in less than a month.
"I don't want the country of my grandchildren and great-grandchildren to be largely Muslim," he wrote.
"I don't want Turkish or Arabic to be spoken in large areas, women to wear headscarves and the daily rhythm to be set by the call of the muezzin. If I want to experience that, I can take a holiday in the Orient."
Merkel publicly criticised Sarrazin and he was forced to resign from the central bank, but an opinion poll showed that 60 per cent of the public agreed with him and 18 per cent would vote for him if he set up his own party.
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Blacks in the UK:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/oct/11/black-prison-population-increase-england
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More black people jailed in England and Wales proportionally than in US
New study finds seven times more black people per population are in prison � in the US number is just four times as many |
Looks like the Brits have a long way to go to catch up to America. |
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Even Hotter
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| Or possibly differing demographics from which a clear cut simplistic conclusion cannot be reached? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:38 am Post subject: |
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I just clicked on the link you supplied above and found this:
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The following correction was printed in the Guardian's Corrections and clarifications column, Thursday 14 October 2010
A headline and the first paragraph of a story that examined the numbers of people of African-Caribbean and African descent in the prison system in the UK and the US wrongly stated, owing to an editing error, that black people in England and Wales were more at risk of jail than black Americans. The rest of the story, based on a new report, accurately reported that the proportion of black people in jail in the UK was almost seven times their share of the population, whereas in the US the proportion of black prisoners is four times greater than their population share. The expression of the figures was extrapolated from the Equality and Human Rights Commission report How Fair is Britain? The report drew on a 2008 Ministry of Justice document, footnoted as the source of the EHRC statement that stated: "Black prisoners make up 15% of the prisoner population and this compares with 2.2% of the general population � there is greater disproportionality in the number of black people in prisons in the UK than there is in the United States." According to a range of sources, including the US justice department, about 12% of the US population is black and about 40% to 45% of the US prison population is black. According to Roy Walmsley's World Prison Population List 2009, the US jails 756 of every 100,000 of its population. The corresponding figure for England and Wales is 153. Based on the figures above, America jails 3% of its black population, and England and Wales 1%. This means that a black person in the US is three times as likely to be imprisoned as in England and Wales. |
So a black person in America is 3 times more likely to be jailed than a black person in the UK. Who needs to catch up to who?
It certainly looks like the UK has been trying to catch up with the US with its 'get tough on crime' bullshit:
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| The policies implemented in the last decade mean incarceration levels in Britain are now among the highest in western Europe. England and Wales have an imprisonment rate of 155 per 100,000 and Scotland of 149 per 100,000 of the population. This contrasts with rates of less than 100 per 100,000 for most of Britain's neighbours. |
I'd much rather they got tough on the causes of crime. But of course British politicians have to appease Daily Mail readers, who have no patience for complex explanations of how increasing the jailing of young offenders eventually leads to an even worse result with regard to number of crimes being committed.
But I'm not very surprised by this:
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| The number of black people jailed in England and Wales is seven times larger than the amount they make up of the population. |
It's long been known that racial profiling sees young black males more often stopped by police than their white peers. On top of that, blacks are more likely to live in one of England's squalid inner city urban nightmares. And they're less likely to recieve sympathy from white judges and jurors.
But I don't think Americans are in any position to be congratulating themselves on how wonderfully they've assimilated their black immigrants when nearly 50% of their prison population are blacks while blacks only represent 12-13% of the general population. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:04 am Post subject: |
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My England catching up jab was in fun. As was my description of the roads as racist.
Since you mentioned it.
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The Times�s story includes a graphic breakdown of police stops by race: blacks made up 55 percent of all stops in 2009, though they�re only 23 percent of the city�s population; whites accounted for 10 percent of all stops, though they�re 35 percent of the city�s population; Hispanics made up 32 percent of all stops, though 28 percent of the population, and Asians, 3 percent of all stops and 12 percent of the population. The article details a host of other police actions by specific racial numbers, including arrests, frisks, and use of force.
Here are the crime data that the Times doesn�t want its readers to know: blacks committed 66 percent of all violent crimes in the first half of 2009 (though they were only 55 percent of all stops and only 23 percent of the city�s population). Blacks committed 80 percent of all shootings in the first half of 2009. Together, blacks and Hispanics committed 98 percent of all shootings. Blacks committed nearly 70 percent of all robberies. Whites, by contrast, committed 5 percent of all violent crimes in the first half of 2009, though they are 35 percent of the city�s population (and were 10 percent of all stops). They committed 1.8 percent of all shootings and less than 5 percent of all robberies. The face of violent crime in New York, in other words, like in every other large American city, is almost exclusively black and brown. Any given violent crime is 13 times more likely to be committed by a black than by a white perpetrator�a fact that would have been useful to include in the Times�s lead, which stated that �Blacks and Latinos were nine times as likely as whites to be stopped.� These crime data are not some artifact that the police devise out of their skewed racial mindset. They are what the victims of those crimes�the vast majority of whom are minority themselves�report to the police. |
They're in jail more because they commit more crime. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
But I don't think Americans are in any position to be congratulating themselves on how wonderfully they've assimilated their black immigrants when nearly 50% of their prison population are blacks while blacks only represent 12-13% of the general population. |
Black immigrants? A large swath of the African-American community was born here.
Last edited by The Happy Warrior on Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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At least Merkel has the balls (or whatever) to admit this. You can't create a multi-cultural society by just importing a load of foreigners, and then expecting everything to be hunky-dory. |
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