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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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 Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
I know the amendment was first drawn up to protect the former slave population after the Civil War, but it is creating a loophole in which people are coming into the US and having children for the sake of getting citizenship. |
The 14th Amendment generates a lot of court decisions. Its the device that allows the Bill of Rights to be incorporated against the States. That's right, if Virginia didn't allow Freedom of Speech in its Constitution, it could suppress your speech. But for the 14th Amendment. Ditto all your precious Constitutional rights, including most recently the 2nd Amendment. |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Your country wants more skilled trades? Your electricians, mechanics, carpenters and plumbers most often seem to come from the Polish, Ukrainian, Hungarian, Italian immigrants.
Quotas on the nationality of immigrants is a longstanding practice and a wise one. Economically, it's beneficial to target certain countries because of the ethnic and cultural traits predictably shown. Really, that's no more social engineering than sin taxes.
To the question of integration, I've always thought a country should encourage immigration from as diverse an assortment of cultures as possible, which discourages ethnic enclaves because the threshhold for a subcommunity is lacking. It's better to have a few hundred coming from each of a hundred countries than a hundred thousand from three or four countries, imo.
One thing for sure, immigration is a good thing. |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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Bucheon Bum-
The elderly immigrants who come are sponsored by the undocumented immigrants who have children so they and their relatives could come and live in the US.
AZ,CA, NM, TX?
Have been to the US lately? They're everywhere!
As for singling out the illegal Mexican community, they are, by far, the largest group of undocumented immigrants in the US- hands down!
A lot of the low-level jobs in places as far north as Vermont (I can spell the states) are being taken by undocumented workers. A lot of these jobs are being taken away from the lower-class American workers because taxes and wage deductions are too high from many employers.
The employers benefit from the non-deductions by gaining more profits.
The undocumented workers benefit because they have no deductions taken out of their pay. If an American were to take a job with the same wage as an undocumented worker, they couldn't survive.
Right now the US unemployment rate is at 9.6%, almost 10% of the US workforce is out of work.
A lot of these workers are out of work because of overseas outsourcing and because many of the manual labor jobs are given to undocumented workers.
Why should we standby and let this happen?
Here is a counter of the legal and undocumented immigrants who go into the US;
http://immigrationcounters.com/
As for paying taxes, do you call only 6 million, out of the other millions of undocumented immigrants living in the US, a majority of the immigrants?
| Quote: |
To the question of integration, I've always thought a country should encourage immigration from as diverse an assortment of cultures as possible, which discourages ethnic enclaves because the threshhold for a subcommunity is lacking. It's better to have a few hundred coming from each of a hundred countries than a hundred thousand from three or four countries, imo.
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In sociological sense, it has been seen that first and second generation immigrants tend to stay within their own community. However, by the third and fourth generation, many tend to branch out into greater society.
I agree, immigration is a very good thing and most of the developed world became developed because of the skills brought in by immigrants.
But it has to be done responsibly. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
Bucheon Bum-
The elderly immigrants who come are sponsored by the undocumented immigrants who have children so they and their relatives could come and live in the US. |
How many actually do this?? Under a million I'm sure.
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AZ,CA, NM, TX?
Have been to the US lately? They're everywhere! |
I live in the US. They're rare here in DC and hard to find in New Orleans (where I was recently). Plenty of Central Americans though in our nation's capital (primarily from El Salvador and Guatemala).
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| As for singling out the illegal Mexican community, they are, by far, the largest group of undocumented immigrants in the US- hands down! |
Thank you Captain Obvious.
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A lot of the low-level jobs in places as far north as Vermont (I can spell the states) are being taken by undocumented workers. A lot of these jobs are being taken away from the lower-class American workers because taxes and wage deductions are too high from many employers.
The employers benefit from the non-deductions by gaining more profits.
The undocumented workers benefit because they have no deductions taken out of their pay. If an American were to take a job with the same wage as an undocumented worker, they couldn't survive. |
Once again, this is factually incorrect. Well the deductions part. You might be able to spell states but you apparently cannot read. Employers gain simply due to paying lower wages.
And I guess you missed the recent article about how a farmer was looking for legal workers but hardly anyone applied. Americans don't want certain jobs, that's the fact of the matter.
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Right now the US unemployment rate is at 9.6%, almost 10% of the US workforce is out of work.
A lot of these workers are out of work because of overseas outsourcing and because many of the manual labor jobs are given to undocumented workers.
Why should we standby and let this happen? |
Nice to know you can round up. Good job. And as I said above, many americans don't want those manual labor jobs. Overseas outsourcing is another issue entirely and not connected to illegal immigration.
Thanks for the link.
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| As for paying taxes, do you call only 6 million, out of the other millions of undocumented immigrants living in the US, a majority of the immigrants? |
I'd say now, it's close to a majority. About half. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="bucheon bum"]
| mc_jc wrote: |
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| As for paying taxes, do you call only 6 million, out of the other millions of undocumented immigrants living in the US, a majority of the immigrants? |
I'd say now, it's close to a majority. About half. |
On the other hand it would appear some people and organizations such as Bear Stearns would call it less than a third.
http://ohmygov.com/blogs/general_news/archive/2008/04/10/number-of-illigral-immigrants-in-u-s-may-be-closer-to-20-million.aspx
In the link above they list some problems with the figure of 12 million thrown around....including the fact that it is based on a 2000 Census |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:08 am Post subject: |
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[quote="TheUrbanMyth"]
And that was an article from 2008 and the Bear Stearns report was done in 2005. A lot has gone on between those years and now. I think we can safely say we really don't know the true numbers. |
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Johum
Joined: 09 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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The US- the place where the uneducated go to take over at McDonalds so the fry cook could teach ESL in Korea
Frackin' morons |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Johum wrote: |
The US- the place where the uneducated go to take over at McDonalds so the fry cook could teach ESL in Korea
Frackin' morons |
if you're going to be a troll, at least be an entertaining one. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Johum wrote: |
The US- the place where the uneducated go to take over at McDonalds so the fry cook could teach ESL in Korea
Frackin' morons |
if you're going to be a troll, at least be an entertaining one. |
Yes. Yank-baiting by self-righteous Canadians(authentic or otherwise) is the OLDEST schtick in the Dave's trolling repertoire. Ya gotta come up with something with more original if ya wanna make a splash these days. |
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Johum
Joined: 09 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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I am not baiting anyone.
Compared to Canada, the US attracted the least educated in the world and although we have a liberal immigration policy, we are not helpless when we enforce our policies- compared to those pathetic Amer-Ricans in the south.
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| if you're going to be a troll, at least be an entertaining one. |
If you don't like what I say
~ go boil an egg! |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Johum wrote: |
The US- the place where the uneducated go to take over at McDonalds so the fry cook could teach ESL in Korea
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Yes yes, you're very clever. |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| How many actually do this?? Under a million I'm sure. |
Have you been to the US lately?
Do you have statistics from the SSA to know that this is true?
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I live in the US. They're rare here in DC and hard to find in New Orleans (where I was recently). Plenty of Central Americans though in our nation's capital (primarily from El Salvador and Guatemala).
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I didn't know there was a district in Bucheon known as 'DC'.
Those Central Americans you saw running around are the same undocumented workers I mentioned- thank you for reinforcing that fact for me. It's so considerate of you.
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Thank you Captain Obvious.
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You're certainly welcome. I needed to point out the largest community of undocumented workers in the US
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And I guess you missed the recent article about how a farmer was looking for legal workers but hardly anyone applied. Americans don't want certain jobs, that's the fact of the matter.
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So it gives the farmer a green light to hire undocumented workers?
Had he tried hard enough or did he just hire anyone that was available for the season?
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And as I said above, many americans don't want those manual labor jobs. Overseas outsourcing is another issue entirely and not connected to illegal immigration.
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It's been a while since you've been back to the US, hasn't it?
The job market has gotten worse since the last time you've been back to the US. People are willing to take almost any job.
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The 12 million number is a very conservative estimate and there is no telling how many illegals are truly in the US. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
| It's been a while since you've been back to the US, hasn't it? |
Aren't you the guy who constantly claims to be working in Afghanistan to lend his rumor-mongering some credibility? Where do you get off using someone else living outside the US as a point against them in a discussion like this?
| mc_jc wrote: |
| The job market has gotten worse since the last time you've been back to the US. People are willing to take almost any job. |
Maybe you didn't hear about this. It's called Take Our Jobs. It's been advertised both on television and on internet media outlets. They haven't gotten much of a response. People are not willing to take almost any job. Like almost everything you've said on this topic, you're demonstrably wrong. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
| Quote: |
| How many actually do this?? Under a million I'm sure. |
Have you been to the US lately?
Do you have statistics from the SSA to know that this is true?
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I live in the US. They're rare here in DC and hard to find in New Orleans (where I was recently). Plenty of Central Americans though in our nation's capital (primarily from El Salvador and Guatemala).
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I didn't know there was a district in Bucheon known as 'DC'.
Those Central Americans you saw running around are the same undocumented workers I mentioned- thank you for reinforcing that fact for me. It's so considerate of you.
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Thank you Captain Obvious.
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You're certainly welcome. I needed to point out the largest community of undocumented workers in the US
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And I guess you missed the recent article about how a farmer was looking for legal workers but hardly anyone applied. Americans don't want certain jobs, that's the fact of the matter.
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So it gives the farmer a green light to hire undocumented workers?
Had he tried hard enough or did he just hire anyone that was available for the season?
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And as I said above, many americans don't want those manual labor jobs. Overseas outsourcing is another issue entirely and not connected to illegal immigration.
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It's been a while since you've been back to the US, hasn't it?
The job market has gotten worse since the last time you've been back to the US. People are willing to take almost any job.
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The 12 million number is a very conservative estimate and there is no telling how many illegals are truly in the US. |
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I've been living in the USA since late 2004. I haven't lived in Korea since 2003. And I'm quite aware of the poor job market here since I was job hunting in 2009 as were 100+ of my grad school classmates. Most have jobs now. If you have the skills and connections, you CAN find work.
And you really have no idea how many of my neighbors here in DC are illegal immigrants. Probably the ones hanging out in front of the local 7-11 all the time, but the ones working in the local restaurants and shops? Who knows...
Here is a link that has facts that you sorely lack:
National Immigration Law Center
It has fun facts such as: "According to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service, undocumented noncitizens paid almost $50 billion in federal taxes from 1996 to 2003."
And an article about illegal immigrants filing income tax! (sorry, have to be a WSJ subscriber to read the whole thing)
Article
A WaPo article
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| tephen C. Goss, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration and someone who enjoys bipartisan support for his straightforwardness, said that by 2007, the Social Security trust fund had received a net benefit of somewhere between $120 billion and $240 billion from unauthorized immigrants. |
And here is a link to a pdf copy of a paper of a former econ professor of mine who wrote about the economic benefits from illegal immigration.
It states:
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The stakes are highest for the unauthorized
immigrants themselves, who see very substantial income gains after migrating. If we exclude these immigrants from the calculus, however (as domestic policymakers are naturally inclined to do), the small net gain that remains after subtracting US workers� losses from US employers� gains is tiny. And if we account for the small fiscal burden that unauthorized
immigrants impose, the overall economic benefit is close enough to zero to be essentially a wash. |
And some more stats for you:
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The majority of unauthorized immigrants come from countries near the United States, with 59 percent being from Mexico, 15 percent from Central America and the Caribbean, and 7 percent from South America. The vast majority of these individuals from nearby countries enter the United States by crossing the US-Mexico border. The remaining 19 percent of
unauthorized immigrants are divided among Asia (11 percent), Canada and Europe (4 percent), and other countries (4 percent), most of whom enter on and then overstay temporary visas. |
If you want to read the full article, it is listed under 2009 and the author is Gordon Hanson.
And according to the Pew Hispanic Center, there are now 11.9 million illegal immigrants. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="mc_jc"]
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As soon as a child is born, the parents put the paperwork in not only for the child's citizenship, but for their own too.
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A child born in the U.S. may automatically be a U.S. citizen, but the child can't sponsor their parents or other relatives for immigration until they are 21.
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-130instr.pdf |
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