Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Voyeur]

Within the current context of the liberal democratic pradigm, liberal feminism at minimum seems like a good idea to me.

But I find other gender topics, maybe deeper questions, fascinating.

I prefer balanced, nuanced discussions where all sides are open to admitting the question marks.

One thing I find interesting is a sort of paradox I've noticed. If you don't enforce gender roles, then under the liberal democratic system it seems likely that men will always outperform women and have more power. Probably not by as much as they do now, but I don' think you will ever eliminate the discrepancy altogether. There are a host of bilogical reasons why - none of which make men better, just more likely to achieve "success" and "power" as typically defined in ways that you can quantify or "keep score" of.

If you really wanted gender power parity on a more statistical level, maybe you actually would need to divide the world into gender roles, empower eadch set of roles equally, and enforce them relatively rigidly.

Or not. Just musing.

[aboxofchocolates]

Thanks Molly Bloom, that'll keep me busy for a year or so. Seems a bit like dirty pool to take advantage of something as traumatic as wartime to achieve equality. The ends justify the means has never really jived with me. Oh, this is going to sound all wrong- maybe woman's ethics are flawed AS IN when they have dismissed the ethics that traditionally keep them subservient (and I am still a proponent of this) there is no ethical guideline they can follow to function as compassionate and responsible members of a society. Try de-gendering ethics, that's a fun game.

Off hand, and with no citations available, I can think of two examples (other than WWII) where women benefited from men trotting off to war.

Sparta's rich men were off to the barracks at the age of ten and then off to war when they reached adulthood (the citizens, not the lower classes). The women were pretty much free to run the show. But that is how Sparta ran most of the time, war was a constant, not the exception.

The Crusades killed off a ton of Europe's men, and the black plague finished off another good portion. I heard this was a time women had a lot of economic and intellectual power. The Catholic Church was not a fan of this state of affairs so up and comes the witch burnings. Considering the backlash from women's advancement in WWII is supposedly the fifties housewife, I'd say we've mellowed considerably as a society.

Gender is the main variable when analyzing oppression for feminists, but it is not the only variable. I am not dong a deep analysis here (I can't, my library is in Canada) but you have to remember, the men who trot off to war those days were a) the lower/less powerful classes and b) the workforce. Because I watch a lot of Startrek I am going to call wartime a period of social "flux" where society doesn't run as it should and producers are forced to call upon a reserve of labor outside the social norm to maintain production during this flux (I captain the starship "Obvious" by the way). However, since the upper, more powerful classes did not all get killed off during wartime they are able to restore the regular balance of society after the period of flux.

The moral of my rant is war is a terrible way to achieve gender equality because 1) it's mean and 2) it ultimately doesn't work.

And all this is said without having read any of the stuff I requested, so I might just discover I am flat out wrong! I'll be right back, I have to read the works of eleven or so authors writing in a field I am not familiar with!! Good times, good times.

[NilesQ]

I find it telling that you don't seem to see many equal rights demonstrations outside of Army draft stations. This quest for "equality" is not always 100% truly that.

The day the foreign women who come to Korea and lament the status and rights of women start to demand that Korean women be required to serve in the military, just like the men, their position will have credibility.

Usually, they just say women here should have more choices and better pay. An increase in status without an increase in responsibility.

[princess]

[NYC_Gal]

[mises]

Was the dream of feminism a society where women defer childbirth to stock shelves at Safeway and bang Ed Hardy d-bags on the weekend during their 20's? Well, here is the future of that type of liberated woman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYtF83ToMXA

[Fox]

[NYC_Gal]

I always thought the dream was being able to choose whether or not you wanted to have an education, children, etc.

Oh, and I'm all for a co-ed military draft, if ever there were a need for it. I could use the boot camp. My gym routine is severely lacking compared to back home (though the trainers still tell me I'm using too much weight )

Basically, do what you want. If that's being a housewife, that's fine. If it's getting an MD in Neuroscience, that's fine too. Adopt, have your own, or don't raise any children. It's up to you. Don't hate women who fight for rights, though. You may find it unattractive, but it's important that these people exist, because if they didn't, we'd all be stuck at home, unable to live our own lives.

Fair enough?

[Fox]

[Fox]

[BaldTeacher]

Feminism LOL

One way that I think about feminism, is that it's like one giant test to weed out the weak men. Those who tow the line and fit the feminist mould (manginas), are weeded out of the gene pool, more or less. If they're (un)lucky, they will get to become the beta provider husband of some has-been who's hit the wall looks-wise. More than likely they'll get raped in the divorce courts after a few years of being a "kitchen bitch". Those of us who ignore all the crap that's been shoved in our brains for all these years, pass the test.

Also, I think feminism just drives a wedge between men and women. Sorry, I meant womyn.

Here are some cool women:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGbwL8kSpEk

Here are some nasty-ass feminists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuHEQEsCjDo



Here's a good article, if you can get through it all. It appeared in The Futurist:

http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html

[BaldTeacher]

By the way, this is the best way to deal with feminists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lXUd7VxuSA&feature=related

Joe Rogan is the boss.

[NYC_Gal]

BaldTeacher caught genital warts in Korea, per another thread, so his views on women are skewed, to say the least.

My former military, hunts-in-Alaska-for-large-game Grandpa is a feminist. He's no mangina.

@Fox

Feminism hasn't attained all of the goals, but it's getting there. Like I said, I'd be willing to be drafted if there were a need for it.

[BaldTeacher]

What's with all the talk about my genitals? Something on your mind?

But since my rooster can't defend itself on this forum, I'll have to be the one to do it. It's smooth and clean as a dinner plate.

Oh and my views on women are: ladies are cool, but not all women are ladies.

[NYC_Gal]

Fair enough. Just teasing because of the illness thread.

From your previous posts, it seemed as though you didn't believe ladies existed. If you do, and believe that they deserve respect and equal treatment, then great