Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jajdude]

Maybe some aren't learning as much as they might if they had to figure it out for themselves. They whine a lot. "Teacher, I don't know," but they rarely if ever use a dictionary, they rarely do anything to improve their English outside the classroom, and they usually just wait for the answers and explanations, which they probably don't understand. They are quite passive about it all. No surprise several years can pass and they will still be so weak. It is a bit frustrating to seem to be wasting time and effort and even parent money on these kids.

[Tony Danza's Houseguest]

I agree with you. But what I think is even worse is that some of my *ahem* out-of-hagwon students are fantastic English speakers, yet they will never use it with their friends. They speak English at a near-native level, and I am the only hour of their week where they actually get to converse like adults. When I asked one girl, who is 15 Korean (13 Western), why she doesn't talk to her friends in English, she said, "They all get mad at me and think I'm showing off."

When I was in high school we used to speak Spanish to each other in the halls because we knew it would help us get better. We knew a girl whose mother is Mexican, and when she would speak with us we wouldn't get embarrassed; we would be happy that we were able to speak with someone who knew what the hell she was doing.

It has been said before, but it must be said again: If these kids want to get better at English, they need to use it outside of class. Until they realize this, the only kids who will stand a chance at becoming fluent will be the ones who are fortunate enough to get a year-long vacation in an English-speaking country. As teachers, the only thing we can do is encourage them. It's too bad we can't use riding crops as aid to encouragement.

[ryleeys]

A foreigner once chastised me for my classroom technique of having the kids write the Korean word underneath of the English word when I have them copying vocabulary... he said I wasn't teaching English as a second language like I should be. Maybe he was right...

But a second language is something that you become fluent in and use fairly regularly, right?

So in that case, maybe it's better from a learning perspective to teach English as a foreign language at this point.

(I also have some kids that are so young that they are learning the Korean words for the first time too. Perfect age to learn two native languages, but since they only get Korean outside of school, it'll never happen)

[jajdude]

Are we not here to teach English as a FOREIGN language (capital letters needed)? I think English as a SECOND language is taught in English speaking countries, where the students are usually already pretty good, at basic English at least.

For most of these kids it will never reach the level of a second language that they can use with any real proficiency. I'm trying to think about it realistically, not pessimistically. And I do try to help them learn. I just think it is very hard for most Koreans to learn English for a lot of reasons. If the same ways of studying English don't change, and the same methods of teaching it continue, few will get good at it, just like the young adults you meet now who say they've studied for years but cannot converse.

[Derrek]

[Mr. Pink]

[some waygug-in]

This is one issue that always gets me. "English ONLY", rubbish!
Just imagine yourself trying to learn Korean with no English translations.

I've heard all the excuses, "Oh they will never learn to function in English if you always translate for them"

That is true if you "just translate for them", but if you are at all creative at what you do, you can make some pretty interesting excercises using translation.

EX: give them the Korean first, they have to come up with the English.
make it into a game kind of activity so it's fun as well.
Start with simple vocabulary that they are working on in the regular lesson, then short phrases and finally target sentences.


I'm not saying you should spend your whole lesson doing this, but there are definately some useful ways that you can utilize translation.
cheers

[just because]

I do the Korean translation as well so the kids better understand. We don't read it, just that it is there for a reference.For high middle-school up it should really be only English though.

I think this approach works well, people who use just exclusively English in the classroom to teach are probably hitting their heads against the wall at times compared to this method (bring on the self-rightious remarks).

[sadsac]

The joys of being free thinking individuals. We are able to express an opinion and then accept a diverse range of responses to that statement or offered opinion. Personally, I like an English only policy. My previous school, no Korean teaching staff, only native speakers, the children benefited from an environment where only English was offered. Those children that made an effort to learn and enjoyed learning English did exceptionally well and it was interesting to note that they were usually the same kids that did well at Korean school. Take a poll, find out how many kids in your classes want to be there and how many have to be there and then determine who are the ones learning. I am now working in a school where the kids are great and the system is deficient and even after 2 and 3 years some of these kids can't ask simple questions or respond to a simple question. I think we all do the very best we can in a flawed system and hope that maybe a small percentage will apprecaite our effort in teaching them a second language.

[jajdude]

Free thinking? Whatcha talking about?

[paperbag princess]

"This is one issue that always gets me. "English ONLY", rubbish! "

i'm sorry, but i have to disagree with you. when i learned how to speak french, we were not allowed to speak english in the class and it worked. in my experience of learning a second language the only true way to become bilingual is to immerse oneself completely in the language.

[justagirl]

How old were you when you used this system, paperbag princess? Most of our students are 7-12 years old (elementary). An English-only class can't help beginning students as much as a bi-lingual approach can. These students DO need the help of Korean explaining the English. My students don't even know what a verb or noun is in Korean. How am I supposed to explain the syntax of English to them?

If you are talking about high-school or college level classes, then fine. I totally agree. But even in my begining years of Spanish I never would have made it if the teacher had insisted on "all-Spanish" in the classroom. How could I ask her a question if I only have a vocabulary of 200 words? That's what the children we teach are dealing with. They can't even ask us questions, and therefore it's very difficult for us to help them.

By the way, I'm fluent in Spanish, as it was my major in university, so I do have experience in what I'm talking about. For upper-level classes, an all-Spanish class is, of course, helpful. But it's just not beneficial for elementary students who can't answer, "How are you?" That is what the majority of hakwon teachers are dealing with every day.

justagirl

[some waygug-in]

I'd just like to add that I agree with a monolingual approach for pre-intermediate and higher classes. (of course levels will vary, each teacher will have their own idea of what levels their students are)

Another point I'd like to mention is that immersion works well for languages that share some similarity. English - French - Spanish

When you start talking about Korean - English , that's a whole 'nother ball o' wax.

Students who you only see an hour a day, will quickly get tuned out if you don't give them something to grab their attention.

When I listen to French, I can pick up a lot (eventhough I don't speak French) just because of the similarity with English.

I can't do that with Korean. (except for obvious Konglish words)
Korean just sounds like mindless babble to my ear. (I'm not trying to insult Koreans here, it's just incomprehensible to me)
I really have to work hard at learning Korean phrases, listening and then repeating over and over, before I can start discerning meaning from the sounds. Even after I have studied, and should know the words, sometimes my brain just won't recognize the sounds. I know this happens while learning any language, but it is a HUGE difference between
European and Asian languages.

I suppose someone will jump all over me for this, sigh c'est la vie

An interesting experience I'd like to share. I was teaching a class of junior high school students (boys) and was having trouble getting them to pay any attention to me or to even make an effort as far as learning was concerned. We were using a textbook that I thought was way too difficult for them, and they were totally uninterested in using it or anything else I would try to do.

So, just as an experiment, I took a bunch of the key vocabulary from the lesson and wrote out the Korean equivalents on the board. Not sentences, just 10 - 20 key words.

Suddenly they were interested and had the execise finished within 10 minutes!

What does this tell you?

Not that I think you should do this all the time, but once in a while it can be helpful.


Cheers

[jajdude]

You make a good point "some". Two totally different languages need a bridge for most beginners. We aren't hired on our ability to provide that bridge but that is to the detriment of the kids I think. Sometimes we're just caretakers giving the parents a break perhaps.

[paperbag princess]

i was 8 when i started taking french.

my youngest class here is 7 and they actually have least problem with speaking english in class. it's my elementary classes that speak korean all the time (and who have no idea what nouns, verbs, adjectives etc... are as i recently discovered attempting to teach the passive voice). anyway, the younger a child is, the easier it is to learn a language. their vocab in korean is also limited so if i pick up a crayon and say "red crayon" they get the point.

i've noticed that there are some kids who've been at this school for a long time, but who still speak little english unless they are asked the question in korean. for example, "how many mommies do you have" blank stare. repeat question. blank stare. ask the question in korean (albeit broken korean) the child says one. ask the question in english again, blank stare. that's no way to learn a language.