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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| stephorama wrote: |
| You know, deliberately lying and misleading the country into a very costly (lives, body parts, money) war could arguably bring impeachment proceedings. |
Bush did a lot of things I didn't like, and the few policies he supported that I did like, he didn't do. That said, lying isn't a crime unless you do it to obtain money (fraud). |
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stephorama
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| stephorama wrote: |
| You know, deliberately lying and misleading the country into a very costly (lives, body parts, money) war could arguably bring impeachment proceedings. |
Bush did a lot of things I didn't like, and the few policies he supported that I did like, he didn't do. That said, lying isn't a crime unless you do it to obtain money (fraud). |
Bush took an oath as president. He lied in his State of the Union Address - one of the duties he took on under his oath. (In case anyone doesn't know what he lied about - he lied to Congress (and the American people) in order to build support for war.
Accck! I promised myself I'd stick to my Political Atheist stance but I just so tire of people bitching about Obama. He had a huge freaking mess to clean up and I'm really not sure it was cleanable! Bush and the neocons damaged this country like no other and got richer in the process.  |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| That said, lying isn't a crime unless you do it to obtain money (fraud). |
Not true.
(No lie) |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
So many are ready to believe the propaganda coming from insurance companies who have no desire to help America but just to get Obamacare overturned. |
Obamacare is good for insurance companies. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| sigmundsmith wrote: |
I have just been reading some different news sites and blogs and there has been a lot of talk about impeaching Obama after the Republicans take the mid-term in 2 weeks. It has even been talked about by Republican representatives.
But there doesn't seem to be any clear reason as to why or what reasons they can impeach him. There are a lot of comments saying that he is a Marxist/Communist/Socialist, but no clear evidence as to the reasoning.
Can someone clarify what evidence the right wing conservatives have for impeaching Obama? |
Not a "right wing conservative" (nor am I a lawyer), but I can think of a few possible reasons he might be considered impeachable:
1) Possibly lying about his citizenship. To this day he has not been willing and/or able to produce his original birth certificate. Even if he proves he was in fact born on US soil, it is known that he became an Indonesian citizen (Barry Soetaro), giving up his US citizenship.
2) He arguably violated the 11th Amendment when he sided with illegal aliens (foreign citizens) and the Mexican government, suing the state of Arizona over its immigration law.
3) He placed himself at the head of the UN security council (arguable violating section 9 of the constitution).
4) He allegedly interfered with security treaty negotiations with Iraq during the Bush administration (privately urging Iraqi leadership to postpone the troop draw-down until after his election) - a serious violation of the Logan Act.
http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2008/09/the_audacity_of.html
5) Obamacare arguably violates the first article and 10th Amendment of the constitution.
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Laws that are unconstitutional are struck down. There are no impeachment proceedings. |
Says who? It's not just passing laws, it's committing treason. At any rate if he violated the constitution multiple times, and deliberately at that, then it would certainly warrant an impeachment. I'm not exactly qualified to make a legal case, but I seriously doubt you're much more qualified to dismiss it (and if you are, then by all means present your rebuttal).
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http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/a1_2_5.html
Impeachment is an indictment for "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." Usually, this would be high crimes and passing an unconstitutional law is not a crime, and even if it were, the President doesn't pass laws, Congress does. |
Obama, like Bush before him, is basically waging war against the constitution. Taken as a whole, his entire presidency is treasonous and has done serious damage to the country. A few of the specific actions (not law passing) were arguably treasonous anyway. As for congress, Obama just issues signing statements like Bush did (something he promised he wouldn't do, but lied blatantly).
| Quote: |
| Signing a law concerning health care into office is not treason. |
It's still a high crime (unless you have a different definition). |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Forget Fox news soundbites and the ravings of teabaggers who draw a "CHECK" for mental problems. he has committed no treasonable offenses!! He has done a decent job as president. He ran on a platform which featured healthcare and he kept his promise to some extent. Absolutely amazing how much money doctors and the insurance companies have spent fighting healthcare reform and now they are spending billions to overturn it. Most even honest Republicans would give him a B. Bush was the worst president in U.S history. Often drunk or coked up. Obama had a huge mess to clean up. Karl Rove has outflanked the Democrats once again, bringing in foreign money to fund the teabaggers who he uses to attack the president with outrageous claims. |
Blah blah blah. Obama is just as bad as Bush and is continuing the same agenda and then some. Obama lied about everything. You got duped.
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| So many are ready to believe the propaganda coming from insurance companies who have no desire to help America but just to get Obamacare overturned. |
The insurance companies wrote the health care bill and benefit more than anyone else. They love it. Get a clue already. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| stephorama wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| stephorama wrote: |
| You know, deliberately lying and misleading the country into a very costly (lives, body parts, money) war could arguably bring impeachment proceedings. |
Bush did a lot of things I didn't like, and the few policies he supported that I did like, he didn't do. That said, lying isn't a crime unless you do it to obtain money (fraud). |
Bush took an oath as president. He lied in his State of the Union Address - one of the duties he took on under his oath. (In case anyone doesn't know what he lied about - he lied to Congress (and the American people) in order to build support for war. |
Obama took an oath as president. He lied in his State of the Union Address - one of the duties he took on under his oath. (In case anyone doesn't know what he lied about - he lied to Congress (and the American people) about putting a stop to the wars (and the torture, and the PATRIOT Act etc etc).
| Quote: |
| Accck! I promised myself I'd stick to my Political Atheist stance but I just so tire of people bitching about Obama. He had a huge freaking mess to clean up and I'm really not sure it was cleanable! Bush and the neocons damaged this country like no other and got richer in the process. |
Obama never intended to clean up anything. He's a teleprompter reading puppet working for Wall Street and is continuing the same agenda as the neocons. This is because the Reps and Dems are two heads to the same monster. People who voted for hope and change were a pack of fools. Some have at least woken up to the sham, others continue to be misled. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Visitorq ! Please help me out. I dont understand how signing a bill passed and presented by a lawfully elected congress is a crime? |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| Please help me out. I dont understand how signing a bill passed and presented by a lawfully elected congress is a crime? |
It is a crime when it doesn't get the seal of approval from the raving lunatics and radical conspiracy theorists here on Dave's.
Hey-
What do you get when you combine Lee Harvey Oswald, Mark David Chapman and John Hinckley Jr? A poster on the Korean Current Events Forum on Dave's ESLcafe... 
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| If Americans really knew what socialism is, it wouldn't be such a 'bad' word in the US. |
^ I totally agree. Believe it or not, Roosevelt got a lot of his 'radical' ideas from the far-left.
The problem with Obama is that he made tons of promises to the right and the left to get elected without knowing how hard it would be to pass 'radical' legislation.
The main trend in American politics- if a republican president is in power, people usually vote for a mostly Democratic congress, yet when a Democratic president is in power, people counter him with a Republican congress-- It becomes a vicious circle
Besides, the government does really control industry. The more it tries to regulate any aspect of a specific industry, it meets deeply entrenched opposition.
Another aspect of American society that seems unbelievable is that it opposes drastic change.
Last edited by mc_jc on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:05 am; edited 2 times in total |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Bring out the wingnuts. Within my living memory, anytime a Democrat is in office the right is always mad and thinks of outlandish things to say about the president. Clinton and womanizing, now Obama a traitor and a pseudo-communist/socialist.
If Americans really knew what socialism is, it wouldn't be such a 'bad' word in the US. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| That said, lying isn't a crime unless you do it to obtain money (fraud). |
Not true.
(No lie) |
Please, oh please cite something in US judicial precedent which indicates that lying is a crime when a financial transaction is not involved. If I'm wrong, I would seriously like to be corrected.
If I'm right, I'd like to dispel the myth that lying is illegal.
EDIT:
It's illegal to lie about a financial transaction (ex. the quantity of gasoline you pump into your car has to be accurate). It's also illegal to lie while in court officially "under oath". Other than that, lie at will. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Visitorq ! Please help me out. I dont understand how signing a bill passed and presented by a lawfully elected congress is a crime? |
Fine, go ahead and impeach congress too then (at least those who voted for the bill). Seriously, throw all the rascals out for all I care - the whole system is a sham. I guess until the American people make that happen they deserve the shafting that's coming to them.
(and for the record I know b1tching about it on Dave's isn't actually going to change anything)  |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Bring out the wingnuts. Within my living memory, anytime a Democrat is in office the right is always mad and thinks of outlandish things to say about the president. Clinton and womanizing, now Obama a traitor and a pseudo-communist/socialist. |
Are you still harping on about "right" and "left" wing? Isn't your brain capable of breaking through this extremely limited scope of thinking? Haven't you noticed that 90% of the posters on here who bash Obama are just as likely to bash Bush or republicans for the same things? The Reps and Dems have the same overall agenda with a slightly different (superficial) spin - just enough to dupe the idiot public.
| Quote: |
| If Americans really knew what socialism is, it wouldn't be such a 'bad' word in the US. |
Go on then, what is socialism "really"? (can't wait to hear this)... |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
^ I totally agree. Believe it or not, Roosevelt got a lot of his 'radical' ideas from the far-left.
The problem with Obama is that he made tons of promises to the right and the left to get elected without knowing how hard it would be to pass 'radical' legislation.
The main trend in American politics- if a republican president is in power, people usually vote for a mostly Democratic congress, yet when a Democratic president is in power, people counter him with a Republican congress-- It becomes a vicious circle
Besides, the government does really control industry. The more it tries to regulate any aspect of a specific industry, it meets deeply entrenched opposition.
Another aspect of American society that seems unbelievable is that it opposes drastic change. |
This is just about the most asinine passage I've read on here. The government really does control industry? What country were you born in? The USSR? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If Americans really knew what socialism is, it wouldn't be such a 'bad' word in the US. |
Go on then, what is socialism "really"? (can't wait to hear this)... |
Socialism doesn't equal communism. Socialism encourages some government management of the economy.
Public education, labor unions and public health care are all socialist ideas too. Canada and virtually all of Europe have mixed economies, that combine elements of socialism and capitalism. When many Americans hear the word socialism they think Columbia, the rest of the world thinks Canada, Germany and Sweden. |
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