Korean Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - I migrated to Europe with hope. Now I feel nothing but dread

Speak Korean Now!

Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!

Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

I migrated to Europe with hope. Now I feel nothing but dread
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 ... , 11, 12, 13 Next

Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:35 am Post subject:

conrad2 wrote:

What would happen to the homocide rate of various countries if they had the same access to firearms as people in the United States?

There might be a short-term spike, but then would probably drop off drastically and stay that way. This is because criminals would no longer be the only ones with guns. Same principle would apply even in a country where people (incl. criminals) had previously been too poor to afford firearms. With guns, anyone can defend themselves very effectively = a lot less attempted murders. Common sense.

travel zen

Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject:

Quote:

But so is the US an outlier (very high homicide rate, larger than usual black population for a majority white country, large gap between rich & poor).

Yes, larger than usual...?? What is usual ?

What about those crazy Asians and their population? Prostitution, gangs, knockoffs and money laundering? Too many in USA ? Than usual?

Why do they allow this kind of idiot racism on Daves ?

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:24 am Post subject:

Toronto: http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/mostwanted.php

caniff

Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:06 am Post subject:

^ Clearly racist - the only two whites (that I saw) were way at the bottom of the list.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:45 pm Post subject:

mises wrote:

My England catching up jab was in fun. As was my description of the roads as racist.

As was my response. But I forgive you - you're not English.

mises wrote:

Since you mentioned it.

Quote:

The Times�s story includes a graphic breakdown of police stops by race: blacks made up 55 percent of all stops in 2009, though they�re only 23 percent of the city�s population; whites accounted for 10 percent of all stops, though they�re 35 percent of the city�s population; Hispanics made up 32 percent of all stops, though 28 percent of the population, and Asians, 3 percent of all stops and 12 percent of the population. The article details a host of other police actions by specific racial numbers, including arrests, frisks, and use of force.

Here are the crime data that the Times doesn�t want its readers to know: blacks committed 66 percent of all violent crimes in the first half of 2009 (though they were only 55 percent of all stops and only 23 percent of the city�s population). Blacks committed 80 percent of all shootings in the first half of 2009. Together, blacks and Hispanics committed 98 percent of all shootings. Blacks committed nearly 70 percent of all robberies. Whites, by contrast, committed 5 percent of all violent crimes in the first half of 2009, though they are 35 percent of the city�s population (and were 10 percent of all stops). They committed 1.8 percent of all shootings and less than 5 percent of all robberies. The face of violent crime in New York, in other words, like in every other large American city, is almost exclusively black and brown. Any given violent crime is 13 times more likely to be committed by a black than by a white perpetrator�a fact that would have been useful to include in the Times�s lead, which stated that �Blacks and Latinos were nine times as likely as whites to be stopped.� These crime data are not some artifact that the police devise out of their skewed racial mindset. They are what the victims of those crimes�the vast majority of whom are minority themselves�report to the police.

They're in jail more because they commit more crime.

I almost said something along these lines - but I hadn't got the stats to back it up, and little time to sift around for them. But that's also part of 'blacks and browns' not being integrated into society. These crimes aren't being committed very frequently by middle class and upper class blacks and browns - rather by those on the bottom rungs of society - one they obviously don't feel they have a stake in. THW claims that the US is one big immigration success story - yet even after decades and decades, the US hasn't properly integrated and assimilated its browns and blacks. Neither has the UK - but the US isn't in a position to pat themselves on the back and claim more success in this area.

I'd expect newly immigrated blacks and the next generation to be more likely to commit crime than 10th generation blacks in the richest country in the world. Why are blacks still not really a part of mainstream US society? Sure, some of it can be blamed on individual blacks themselves. But not all of it.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:51 pm Post subject:

The Happy Warrior wrote:

Big_Bird wrote:

But I don't think Americans are in any position to be congratulating themselves on how wonderfully they've assimilated their black immigrants when nearly 50% of their prison population are blacks while blacks only represent 12-13% of the general population.

Black immigrants? A large swath of the African-American community was born here.

And yet, they are not very well assimilated into mainstream society. As you say, even the Chinese have done a better job. Although - they follow a multicultural model. As it seems do you.

On the other hand, in the UK, immigrants have been so well assimilated, that you weren't even aware that we had many immigrants. The blacks that we had a few centuries ago married into the population and have only white looking descendants as their legacy. Though to be fair, we didn't have a huge population of them like you did - and we already had a class system. You created one of blacks and whites - while declaring yourselves the land of the free (whites).

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:01 pm Post subject:

Easy Rider wrote:

As long as they keep some remainder of financial assistance available for those genuinely out of but seeking work.

No. We are constantly held up examples of fraudsters who abuse the benefits system - and the propaganda machine has it that these are the people most likely to be claiming benefits. In fact, the people most likely to be claiming are those that are incapacitated or too old with redundant skills who are no longer attractive to employers. There are generations of unemployed, but these tend to live in areas with chronic unemployment. People are quite rightfully angry with those that sponge off and abuse the system - and this has been used to shaft the majority of genuine claimants. As Kinnock once famously warned (in a newly Thatcherite Britain):

Quote:

I warn you not to be young. I warn you not to fall ill. I warn you not to get old.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject:

Ah, here it is - from a 1983 speech:

Quote:

If Margaret Thatcher is re-elected as prime minister on Thursday, I warn you.

I warn you that you will have pain�when healing and relief depend upon payment.

I warn you that you will have ignorance�when talents are untended and wits are wasted, when learning is a privilege and not a right.

I warn you that you will have poverty�when pensions slip and benefits are whittled away by a government that won�t pay in an economy that can�t pay.

I warn you that you will be cold�when fuel charges are used as a tax system that the rich don�t notice and the poor can�t afford.

I warn you that you must not expect work�when many cannot spend, more will not be able to earn. When they don�t earn, they don�t spend. When they don�t spend, work dies.

I warn you not to go into the streets alone after dark or into the streets in large crowds of protest in the light.

I warn you that you will be quiet�when the curfew of fear and the gibbet of unemployment make you obedient.

I warn you that you will have defence of a sort�with a risk and at a price that passes all understanding.

I warn you that you will be home-bound�when fares and transport bills kill leisure and lock you up.

I warn you that you will borrow less�when credit, loans, mortgages and easy payments are refused to people on your melting income.

If Margaret Thatcher wins on Thursday�

- I warn you not to be ordinary

- I warn you not to be young

- I warn you not to fall ill

- I warn you not to get old.

http://www.owen.org/blog/326

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:18 am Post subject:

Quote:

I'd expect newly immigrated blacks and the next generation to be more likely to commit crime than 10th generation blacks in the richest country in the world.

But it isn't so.

Quote:

Why are blacks still not really a part of mainstream US society? Sure, some of it can be blamed on individual blacks themselves. But not all of it.

They are part of mainstream US society. They are not economically successful. Blacks are as American as apple pie. In the south whites and blacks have better relations than in the north even though some areas of the south are really poor. In parts of the south if your car breaks down and a car stops to help you you'll feel relief if a black guy gets out instead of some meth head white. It's all very complicated. Black crime is very local. They shoot up their own areas and warehousing young black men in jail is in a very real way benefiting other blacks more than anybody else.

First things first, end the war on drugs. And so many other things. The American establishment (lawyers almost all) sees success in the number of blacks in law school. They'd be better served in vocational schools. The US has spent hoards of money trying to lift them up.

And, restrict immigration of low skilled people. Mexicans displace blacks in low skilled jobs.

http://papers.nber.org/papers/w12518

In your country and in mine (and the one I live in) the expanding underclass is not a positive development. The social safety net needs a small underclass and large middle/upper class to pay for it. This ratio is not moving in the right direction. A large underclass is too expensive for the small middle class, which then reinforces and expands the underclass.

The Happy Warrior

Joined: 10 Feb 2010

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:30 am Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

The Happy Warrior wrote:

Big_Bird wrote:

Black immigrants? A large swath of the African-American community was born here.

The UK doesn't have many immigrants compared to the US. The US does immigration well. Our President is 2nd generation, remember? 2nd generation African-American. The African-American issue is not an immigrant issue. It has to do with the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.

In the heartland, there's no multicultural model, that's something you'd find in academia on the coasts. Its an attitude of benign neglect towards immigrants. And again, African-Americans generally aren't seen as immigrants in the States.

Quote:

THW claims that the US is one big immigration success story - yet even after decades and decades, the US hasn't properly integrated and assimilated its browns and blacks.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Last edited by The Happy Warrior on Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:38 am; edited 2 times in total

caniff

Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:34 am Post subject:

travel zen wrote:

Quote:

But so is the US an outlier (very high homicide rate, larger than usual black population for a majority white country, large gap between rich & poor).

http://www.slate.com/id/2272262

Quote:

But even if blacks and whites do not commit crimes at the same rate, and even if Muslims are overrepresented among today's terrorists, our mental associations between these groups and heinous events are made disproportionately large by the unconscious bias that causes us to form links between unusual events and minorities.

The researchers Franklin D. Gilliam Jr., Shanto Iyengar, Adam Simon, and Oliver Wright once conducted a simple experiment that demonstrated how illusory correlations work: They showed volunteers a television news program that featured a violent crime. Some volunteers were shown a white suspect, while others were shown a black suspect, but everything else about the program remained identical. The volunteers who saw the black face were more likely to blame blacks as a whole for rising crime than the volunteers who saw the white suspect were to blame whites for rising crime. (The volunteers in the white scenario blamed that individual suspect for the crime.) The bias showed up among white as well as black volunteers.

People in Thailand will associate white American tourists with pedophilia even though many more acts of pedophilia are committed by Thais. But white Americans are a minority in Thailand, as are acts of pedophilia. So you will hear Thai people shout until they are blue in the face about individual anecdotes showing white Americans who are pedophiles. (The same is true of gay men and pedophilia in the United States.)

bucheon bum

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:58 am Post subject:

Thanks for posting that article. I thought this was a key part:

Quote:

If you know there are 1 billion Muslims on our planet (low estimate) and you've heard of 1,000 incidents where Muslims carried out terrorist attacks (an exaggerated number), and terrorist sympathies were (improbably) distributed evenly across the world, the odds that a particular Muslim is a terrorist are about 1 in a million. A rational Bill O'Reilly should be much more exercised about asteroids striking Earth, or dying from dog bites, than about Muslims being terrorists.

Easy Rider

Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Location: Korea

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:51 am Post subject:

Meh meh meh, Europe is so bad, their day is over blah blah blah. As if anyone actually believes that. Get real dumbarses. Peeks and troughs are part of nature. We ruled you then and we will rule you again. You'd think they would get used to it eh?

conrad2

Joined: 05 Nov 2009

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

conrad2 wrote:

What would happen to the homocide rate of various countries if they had the same access to firearms as people in the United States?

I know the whole NRA arguement that if every one is armed there would be no crime blah blah . And I dont necesarily disagree. But we are talking about murder rates and countries with no access to firearms whatsoever. The murder rates in these countries would increase from current levels undoubtedly. much easier to kill someone with a gun than with a knife or your bare hands. And keep in mind most gun deaths are not committed by murkey criminals in dark alleys.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:59 am Post subject:

conrad2 wrote:

visitorq wrote:

conrad2 wrote:

What would happen to the homocide rate of various countries if they had the same access to firearms as people in the United States?

Aren't you statistically more likely to die by gun if you own one? I'm pretty sure I've seen such stats somewhere.

Display posts from previous:

	Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 ... , 11, 12, 13 Next
Page 12 of 13

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe